PavlovsCat

No, I thought it was Beat that once made an announcement that they were limiting their magware freebies to subscribers only. So knowing that's currently not the case, I definitely want to pick up this issue. I love the sound of vintage Korg synths. I used to own a DW-6000 (yes, I wanted the DW-8000, but couldn't afford it) and another Korg (I can't recall the model) back in the day. I've always loved their sound, but also owned Rolands, Yamahas and other synths. EDIT: @satya I just got the magazine and picked up the PS-20. Thanks for posting the deal!

Haha! Someone probably won, just not us. Probably a decade ago Sampletekk had some kind of sweepstakes giveaway on VI-CONTROL and I won that. I had already been a customer with a lot of their libraries by that point. I think that's the last time I won something in a sweepstakes or contest.

Lawyers are as bad as marketing professionals. Or visa versa. 😉

It's funny that you suggested Megaphone, because I've contemplated buying that and at 5 bucks, why not? Thanks!

Same.

Carl, you know there's no way that I'm knowledgeable enough to make those comparisons myself or anywhere close to as knowledgeable as you. The quote -- or more accurately, paraphrase-- from a KONTAKT developer was an initial reaction after spending a day with the SoundPaint sampler. He loved it. You can probably make a better guess why he might have said that than I can, as you're an Omisphere user and a SoundPaint user and you know this stuff at a level far beyond me. I don't own and have never used Omnisphere. I thought it was interesting as I later found the video from the developer Oliver Codd, the fellow behind Audio Ollie, (I included the video in an earlier post) and he also made an Omnisphere comparison. If you have a chance, give it a watch and maybe it will make more sense to you as someone who uses Omisphere, why multiple KONTAKT developers have made that comparison. When you wrote, "It does absolutely eclipse Omnisphere in the ability to build multi-sample instruments," did you mean for the ability of the average user to build their own instruments? In any event, I think there are two big facts worth mentioning. Omnisphere has been around a very long time and sells for around $480 USD. SoundPaint has been around two years and is free. I'm not ready for it to replace KONTAKT just yet. I think I said it earlier in the thread that as a musician user of sample libraries, the area where KONTAKT absolutely shines is scripting, IMO. I was very involved in the product development (as an input, like a product manager capacity) of Orange Tree Samples Evolution line of guitars and yeah, I'm definitely not leaving them. I'm also not leaving Superior Drummer. But before 8Dio ever reached out to me, I had around two dozen SoundPaint libraries and had made a bunch of programs for it and had been telling friends about it and had posted about it in this forum. While it's not KONTAKT and it's not Omisphere, I think it brings something different and worthwhile to the table. KONTAKT remains my most used sampler, SoundPaint has become my second most used sampler over the past year or so. When I wrote that the effects in SoundPaint seem better than those in KONTAKT, that was my observation, but after I heard that from a KONTAKT developer and found that developer Oliver Codd said the same thing in his video, I felt more confident that my own observation was accurate. And again, I wouldn't profess to have even 1/100th of your knowledge, Carl; I would defer to your expertise; I just felt the effects were better and when two experts stated that, I thought that it validated what I thought for myself, I've truly learned a lot from reading your posts. So everyone absolutely can take my opinions on things with a grain of salt, that I'm no expert, just a hobbyist user. But I thought the effects that I've used in SoundPaint seem a lot better to my ears than the similar effects I've used in KONTAKT and I'm able to do things programming/sound design-wise in SoundPaint that either I can't do in KONTAKT or I just have never figured out how to do in KONTAKT. All I know is that I'm doing things in SoundPaint that I can't do in KONTAKT and it's actually fun to do that stuff in SoundPaint. But I'm absolutely not an expert when it comes to making those comparisons, and to be candid, I wouldn't even share them without a bunch of caveats if I didn't hear the same thing from expert developers and as I've said before, I post here as myself, sharing my own thoughts and opinions, I don't post in any capacity for a developer. So there's no way I can match your expertise in analyzing this stuff, I would definitely defer to you and your expert opinion. I'm just a hobbyist with very simple observations and then reporting what I've heard from experts. On another note, I think you owe all of our red-headed forum members an apology -- and my daughter plays the flute, mister! It's a lovely instrument,

I'm not a spokesperson for 8Dio, just a fan who happens to be doing some independent consulting. So I'm just responding here as a fellow forum member, but I would suggest you contact their support person. I mean, I'm friends with Tawnia, the CEO, but when I have questions, I contact support and their support has been consistently excellent and very friendly.

Share your thoughts once you have a chance to spend some time with it. I'm seriously excited to worth with 8Dio on SoundPaint because I am a fan and a user of SoundPaint long before they contacted me. I think it's a really exciting sampler and I can tell you guys I was in a meeting and there's some extremely cool things coming up for 2024 that I'm having a hard time not sharing.

I haven't bought the magazine in probably a year. Where's the best place to buy it --Falke Media? Do they still let people who only buy a single issue access all the downloads? I ask because I thought the publisher wrote something about making the downloads for subscribers only, but I'm not sure.

I have a machine that was built for video editing and DAW use a couple of years ago. My concern is that $200 or 300 USD is nothing to spend if the difference is the more expensive product is easier to use. If a product is free, but not easy to use, I'm not going to invest the time. I'm a business owner who has very limited time to do the videos. If it takes off, I might have an expert handle things and just write the scripts and do a voice over. So having talked with one friend who told me about DaVinci and having found every review cites that it's not easy to use, takes it out of my consideration set. I don't plan on dedicating my life to video. I want something easy to use to get really good results. If that means spending a few hundred bucks more, that's a good tradeoff for me. It's for my business anyhow.

They still sell a perpetual license version too, I had in my cart when I posted my question.

I can afford to spend the price for Cyberlink Director. It's a business expense, not for home movies. I want to produce a series of YouTube videos. Around 5-10 minutes of stock footage, TV commercials, print ads, and voiceover (me). I've spent my career using agencies for video, but I'm not looking to go Mac and Premeire. I need something easy to use, that can deliver pro/polished results and that's easy to put together a collage, say of photos, videos edited together, along with a voiceover and music. Considering all of that, what do you guys think are the best choices? Is it still Vegas?

I'm looking at video editing software right now. Any opinions on the various options for Windows. I'm looking at CyberLink PowerDirector Ultimate.

A legend. Just like our cclarry!

TL; DR VERSION The next time I speak with the 8Dio folks, I'm going to talk about the fact that some users are willing to sacrifice deep sampling in order to have smaller file sizes and suggest the possibility of libraries getting a standard definition version once they reach a certain file size, say 10GB. PAVLOVSCAT'S ULTRA-DETAILED VERSION The file size is pretty big. But it's not accurate to call it bloat. The file size reflects the detailed sampling philosophy behind Troels' approach to making sample libraries since his earlier company, ToneHammer. I don't know how many people realize this, but while Troels is known as a composer who has done trailers for a number of blockbuster movies (I know he has at least one BAFTA) and games who is also a developer, his educational background is actually in technology. I believe his PhD is in AI. So he's very much a technologist, not just a composer who does development. Going back two decades, he's the person I first remember using the phrase "deep-sampled." But to your point -- kitekrazy -- I'm sure that there are users and users who in some instances -- would prefer to sacrifice deep sampling in order to have a smaller file size. They presently offer some libraries in standard definition. Perhaps I will suggest that once files reach a certain threshold (file size) that they consider offering a standard definition version. For argument's sake, I'll say 10GB. I think the ultra-deep sampling was a big draw for pros, but as SoundPaint targets hobbyists and pros, I think that the standard definition (as opposed to deep sampled) option is likely more important for many hobbyists. For those not clear on situations where demanding and especially pro users will strongly prefer detailed samples, consider piano libraries. Some developers will sacrifice having both pedal-up and pedal-down samples for a smaller file size and opt for only pedal-up samples. It makes a significant difference in file size, of course, to have both. To the most demanding users, it's a very big deal. However, to many hobbyists who aren't as demanding, it likely may be considered unnecessary bloat. The question then becomes, does the developer choose to make a standard definition version of every library that meets a certain size. My hot take is that it could make sense. SoundPaint is already doing this with some libraries, but clearly, not this one. It also may drive up the overall costs, of course, to have to maintain two separate library versions. So it may not be a slam dunk case. But I'm going to share the feedback and present the best case I can, because it does appear to make sense. It does appear likely to be in the interests of many customers they serve.

I strongly recommend downloading and creating your own programs/presets with free 1928 Steinway grand piano. That's where I started. I've used KONTAKT for two decades and created a ton of presets but never like I had after the first time I tried with SoundPaint. My KONTAKT presets are mostly tweaks of factory presets. I'd strongly recommend playing around with ADSR, the various effects, the arpeggiator, layer other libraries with your libraries either in the other libraries' factory patches or adjust it to your liking, it's very easy to do. For example, the free piano with Free Angels or another free library. Even though I own a bunch of Rhodes libraries I'm very happy with for KONTAKT, I still bought SP's Mark 1 last year, due to the programming and layering abilities in SoundPaint. I'm going to pick up the flute, but I presently have no free SSD space and need to install a new drive. As a consultant, I've been giving a bunch of credits to buy instruments. Of course, they want me to use the products I'm advising on, but I haven't used any of the credits yet due to my needing to install another SSD. All of the paid SoundPaint libraries I have are ones I've purchased. I would guess that I own around two dozen SoundPaint libraries and probably a bit more 8Dio KONTAKT libraries. I'm not an influencer. I don't get freebies for posting. I get paid an hourly rate when I'm consulting and do not get paid in sample libraries. How's that for a disclosure folks. As I've written about ethics on things like disclosures, I go out of my way to ensure I live what I've written about. I err on the side of TMI. I started delving into programming/ creating my own presets after watching some of their videos by a very talented jazz pianist named Natalie. But they've since been producing videos to show people how to use the sampler. They're largely aimed at beginners, but by the second video, I found I learned some useful things. I thought this video from a KONTAKT developer named Oliver Codd who produced Nashville Scoring Strings going through SoundPaint was really interesting. To learn more about SoundPaint. It starts out super basic, but you can still learn some things that will let you make your own programs/presets:

I'm up too late again. Thanks for all of your hard work. Have a great trip. Make lots of memories!

Wow, thanks for taking the time to share those insights and observations, Carl. This is exactly the kind of honest and objective kind of review posts that are less likely to appear at developer revenue driven forums. I wish we could archive this post in a review section. I realized long ago how important scripting is, especially for strings and guitar libraries. That mapping does sound extremely odd. I hope the developer gets this feedback and listens.

Okay, I love Key and Peele, but I have no idea what that meme means, which makes me feel old! Help me out. I used to think I was clever at one point. I no longer feel that way today with this meme. I promise, once you explain it, I'll start using it too!

@Carl Ewing There's one developer on your list that I have freebies from, but I don't have any of his paid libraries, Audio Ollie. From the quality of his freebies, I'm guessing that he makes excellent libraries, but I've asked friends and I don't know anyone who owns his libraries. As he recently had his Nashville Strings for dirt cheap ($49 USD), I almost bought it, but then I decided not to because I couldn't find anyone I knew who owned his libraries. What are your thoughts on the developer -- and do you own that library?

Ha! I have no disk space for any of the libraries I bought for Black Friday. I don't even know where I put the additional SSD that I need to install to install those libraries! However, I felt better about buying some IK libraries knowing that I'm not time-limited on installing them. Well, as I've publicly shared I'm advising those folks, I'd love to get your feedback once you've tried it -- send me a PM. Like I posted, I've been using SoundPaint for a couple of years, I have ended up buying a bunch of SP libraries that duplicate what I already own in KONTAKT and SampleTank formats (FTR, I started doing that long before I got to know Tawnia; I would guess that I own a total of 50 8Dio and SoundPaint libraries; so I do have this habit of saying to Tawnia -- this is just my perspective as a customer, every so often). I especially love using SoundPaint for anything I can layer, get creative with, do arpeggios and create my own presets. The flute sounds really good and I'm going to pick it up, but I don't really have much use for flutes (that said, my daughter plays the flute -- so I have much love for the instrument). But taking their piano, strings, electric piano and keyboard libraries and playing with effects is a blast. I bought their Rhodes library earlier this year even though I have more Rhodes libraries than I need, simply because I can do things with SoundPaint that I don't know how to do and you can't technically do in KONTAKT. I'm personally, eager for them to bring in more string libraries, including the 8Dio string libraries I have in KONTAKT. It's cool to be able to put effects and go into sound design territory within a sampler instead of outside effects, as you can just save the preset and use it again later. It's been significant for me.

@Brian Lawler I used to spend a lot of time at KVR, it was my favorite forum for a long time but could get toxic at times. So I switched to this one. I couldn't find any of the threads. Would you mind sharing a link? I'm super curious and might forward it over to Tawnia (8Dio's CEO). Thanks.

Must visit KVR ! People are actually unhappy to get 10 bucks knocked off? From the dev's POV, it's a customer loyalty reward. But it's no surprise that a lot of people will consider it a sale. When they price things that low, all it takes is some re-downloads for a profit to be erased. This is what's behind the war that's taken place on this developer, for anyone wondering why -- the concern that it's going to be very difficult for a small developer who only sells in small numbers to compete with a developer selling higher quantities for a lot less. That this kind of pricing resets buyer's expectations. It's the same concern small plugin effects developers had when Waves started their always on $29/39 USD sales. Hopefully, I won't get in trouble for saying this, but my take -- and why I did the poll here -- was to make the case to charge a little more and do small percentage sales to get people talking about your brand regularly. It's especially noticeable around Black Friday when everyone's choosing to buy the sales stuff over stuff they can buy at the same price all year. 99% of what people to start threads in forums and social media in this business are sales and freebies. If you want to keep your name out there regularly, you should be seriously looking at doing both. Freebies give people a no-risk taste of a developer's work. But sales create a sense of urgency with a time limitation and FOMO. It's also fun (unless you're broke; then I've created to curated lists for you). Yes, these are very simple observations when you lay them out logically. There are a lot of other factors, but the basics can be pretty simple. But when you sell a pro library created in a quality studio with serious engineers, and it's a 21.47 GB library that you're selling for 10 or 20 bucks, it's a lot more challenging to make a profit. Some competitors are pretty uncomfortable that this is the game changer, the disruption that will result in sample users no longer accepting paying high costs for similar sample libraries. I totally get that concern. But, unless your ethics are based on organized crime, your response should be a competitive response -- you give consumers reasons to pay more for your product, you lower your prices, etc. That's the ethical approach to business strategy.

That's right. SoundPaint is a sampler plugin that plays libraries made for SoundPaint as well imports your own samples. Like 8Dio libraries, SoundPaint libraries are highly detailed, consequently, the file sizes can be pretty substantial. Unlike 8Dio and just about every other developer, SoundPaint libraries never go on sale. Their regular prices are really cheap, that's part of the concept, to have razor thin profit margins so everyday prices are really low. I'll share that the poll I did the other week was related to SoundPaint (it was completely done on my own, related to some recommendations I wanted to make). I've been using SoundPaint for 2 years, and was recently been called in for advice from the developer. I'm a huge KONTAKT user. Just about every project of mine uses KONTAKT. What I find SoundPaint excels at is the quality of the effects -- they're far better than those in KONTAKT, the ease of use to delve into editing and programming and make your own presets for SoundPaint is superior to any other sampler Ive used. I've had a KONTAKT developer friend explain to me why the 127 velocity layers is such a big deal, which candidly, I never fully understood until he explained it to me. SoundPaint is the first sampler where I've created my own presets from scratch that go really deep and it's super easy and actually a lot of fun to experiment with. Two KONTAKT developers I know compared SoundPaint to Omnisphere, which I don't use, but clearly, these developers like a lot. Quoting one of them, "It's like a next-generation version of Omnisphere," that's from a very well-respected KONTAKT developer well known in this forum.

I have their Loft Piano and have interacted with the developer and found him to be very pleasant. Loft Piano isn't a deep sampled upright, but I think for a 10 buck Piano or whatever it is, it's really pretty nice. I'd say if anyone listens to the demos and likes it, it delivers. It's not going to go head to head with a great library from Skybox Audio, but it's good and works well for certain pop genres.