Robert Bone

I just went round and round helping a friend out - who was suddenly not able to open CbB, and it turned out to be caused by an old version of EastWest Play software that didn't get properly removed by an update to the Play software.

We ended up trying all kinds of things, to no avail, and finally after exhausting everything I could think of, we got into a Team Viewer session with a tech support guy from EastWest, and he pretty quickly found and deleted the old leftover file, and then everything was back to working fine again.

Not saying the above is relevant to your situation - just illustrating how wacky some of these causes can be - just seemingly random and out of nowhere.

Any other environment changes to your system?  Maybe something that seems innocuous could be interfering with either CbB.

Any Windows Events logged at around the same time as your attempts to launch CbB?  You can get to the Windows Event Viewer a couple of ways - I usually right-click on This PC, then click on Manage, then click on Event Viewer and look for recent errors.

Bob Bone

1 hour ago, Sean Michael Robinson said:

Well, that does it. It appears to be my Realtek network adapter driver. If I uninstall it my PC immediately passes the LatencyMon with flying colors. If I reinstall it, the doom sets in immediately.

Well well well. Not sure what to do here. Disable or uninstall every time I run audio? Buy a new network adapter?

edit: as indicated by the "processes" image above.

I had suspected a WiFi driver might be the culprit - was too busy to circle back to post earlier - you do not have to uninstall it.  Simply disable it, just prior to your CbB session, and enable it when ready to get back on the web.  This kind of issue can happen with many models of laptops, and they often have a function key or physical switch to turn on/off the WiFi transmitter, which accomplishes that same kind of thing.  (if it is your wired network adapter that is unusual - I have had and seen mostly the issue arising from WiFi device drivers).

Going into Device Manager and just disabling or enabling the network adapter just takes maybe 30 seconds to a minute, yes a pain, but not really a deal breaker.

Bob Bone

I don't change presets within one instance of a VST, in the middle of a track.  Instead, I set up a different instance of the VST with its own audio and midi tracks, and it is just easier that way - each can have their own effects chains, EQ, panning, etc.

Here is a link to CbB documentation on doing an insert of a bank/patch change:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Playback.24.html

And as noted in the @Promidi  reply above mine, each VSTi will have its own implementation of how to perform midi bank/program changes, so what information you would be selecting would be entirely dependent on finding out that information from the VSTi you are trying to do this for.

Further, again as noted in the prior reply, sample-based instruments will take some period of time to load, if you were to insert a bank/patch (or bank/program means same thing), and that makes it really hard to have that happen properly.

Because of the complexity and practical reasons listed above, (to do an insert Bank/Program change), instead, I just load up a new instance of the VSTi, and get it set up with whatever the new sound is going to be loaded up for it, and then start recording midi data on the new midi track for that new VSTi instance, and it keeps it all simple.  Please note that this does waste a bit of memory, because I have an extra loaded VSTi module for every synth I do this for, AND, if sample-based, having the sample file(s) also loaded into memory, AND, if I am never going to go back to use the first instance of that plugin, and its sound, then it is going to use that memory for the duration of the project.

I do not concern myself with the amount of memory I may end up using, because my main DAW has 128 GB of memory, but you can safely load a large number of synths (and duplicate loads of several of them - to use new sounds from the same VSTi like I do, with 16 GB or even 8 GB - though these days I think 16 GB would be the minimum target amount of memory for any DAW I would set up for myself).

I hope the above helps some - I suggest you try just setting up the additional instance of the VSTi you are asking about doing the bank/program change for, and see if that works for you.  I think it a much easier approach.

Bob Bone

2 minutes ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

So if you change your track filter to show All on a Simple Instrument track and make it tall enough it shows the output MIDI channel and you can change it.  Makes sense now that I looked it up.

Yours was set to NONE which means it uses what ever is in the MIDI clip for Channel.  If you change it to 1 that'll also fix the problem.  On split instruments those settings are all in the track mixer panel and don't depend on how large your track is.

You can see and change the same parameter (Midi Channel), in the Track Inspector pane, for each of your simple instrument tracks - this parameter is displayed right under the FX bin in each track's channel strip.  Just highlight each track, make sure the Track Inspector is open ('I' on your computer keyboard if it is not being displayed), and you can force each of those tracks to take its midi data and send it to Kontakt on whatever midi channel you assigned in the Midi Channel track parameter.

If you are trying to have Kontakt play more than a single instrument, you would need to load those up, and then get the midi channels for the tracks to match the midi channels for the loaded instruments in your Kontakt instance.  Then you would hear each instrument play through Kontakt.

Bob Bone

An important little bit of info - in the little GIF animation above, there are 2 options that are super important to pay attention to - in the Tempo dialog box that opens up, you can see two 'radio buttons' to pick from, one being to Change the Most Recent Tempo, and the other to Insert a New Tempo.

Choose wisely from those two choices.  If you are wanting to only start using the new tempo from the current Now time forward, then you want to make sure to choose the Insert a NEW Tempo option, so that Cakewalk leaves any prior tempos alone, otherwise - selecting that Change the Most Recent Tempo would NOT insert the tempo change where your Now Time is set, but rather, it would go backwards to whatever the last tempo was set, and it will change THAT tempo.

The project will play at the new tempo until the end of the project, or another tempo change is inserted.

SO - just take a moment when you insert a tempo, to make sure you have the desired radio button option selected, prior to hitting OK. 

Bob Bone

2 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

I don't believe that's right.

You should be using the driver that came with the device.

 

GREAT video quite well explained

Bob Bone

Also https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/behringer-audio-interface-setup-guide/ 

EDITED MY INFO BELOW IS NOT CORRECT - sorry about that.  I looked it up after I had posted - I went to the Behringer site for this interface, and the driver download actually provides a link to download ASIO4ALL as its drivers.

I believe this audio interface is Class-Compliant, meaning Windows will automatically download and install the needed drivers for it.  If you have interference by ASIO4ALL when trying to get to the ASIO driver should download for it - you might consider uninstalling ASIO4ALL and then seeing if the proper device drivers get downloaded an installed by Windows.

Bob Bone

Bob Bone

3 hours ago, PcMacsterRace said:

Like the title says, whenever I import/open a midi file to a Kontakt Track, it doesn't play anything from the midi file. The thing is that if I were to play notes on the virtual keyboard on the software, in the Piano Roll or playing notes on a midi keyboard, it plays a sound, but when playing it back, no sound from the track with the midi file, even if the midi file plays within TTS-1 within the same project. But, if I were to click on a note from an imported/opened midi track, now the virtual keyboard in the piano roll doesn't work, even if I get a new instance of Kontakt loaded and a midi file is not a part of its track.

Any tips to fix this? Thanks

Can you please explain in detail, how you have things set for:

For the midi track you have the midi clip loaded into, please tell me what is set for that track's Input and Output.

For the audio track you want to use to hear the sounds from the Kontakt instrument, please tell me what is set for the Input and Output for that track/

For the Kontakt instance, please tell me if you have an instrument loaded, (sorry have to ask), and also whether or not this is the only Kontakt instance in the project.  If you have more than one Kontakt instance in the project, then please tell me the modified name Cakewalk shows in the synth rack for the particular Kontakt instance that has the instrument you are trying to have play the midi data from your midi track.  (if you have 3 Kontakt instances in the project, Cakewalk would display them as Kontakt 1, Kontakt 2, and Kontakt 3).

Each Kontakt instance present in the project gets 'named' in the Synth Rack, with a numerical suffix to uniquely identify it - your first Kontakt instance will get a name of Kontakt 1, and if you were to load an additional instance of Kontakt, it would be named as Kontakt 2, and so on. 

When you are playing connect the dots between a midi track and the target Kontakt instance, and between an audio track and the target Kontakt instance, you have to make sure you assign the correct Kontakt instance, so if you have let's say 2 Kontakt instances in the project (Kontakt 1 and Kontakt 2), and Piano is loaded into the 'Kontakt 1' instance and Strings are loaded into the Kontakt 2 instance, and you are making the midi track and audio track assignments for the Strings instrument in the 'Kontakt 2' instance, you would have to set the Strings midi track Output assignment to be 'Kontakt 2', and you would need to set the Input assignment for the Strings audio track to pick up the 'Kontakt 2' stereo output, in order to be able to properly hear Strings sounds when you have the Strings midi track in focus. (its Input Echo on).

So trying to recap the assignments, you should have:

1) Kontakt instance with some instrument loaded

2) A midi track with its Input set to Omni/None, and its Output set to match the name of the desired Kontakt Instance.

3) An audio track with its Input set to the Kontakt instance's instrument's Stereo Output (Left and Right).

If the above is in place, then when you bring that midi track into focus, by clicking on that midi track's track number - you should see the Input Echo button lit, for that midi track.  Now, if you play your midi controller, (OR, if you have midi data on that track and you hit Play), you should hear sound from the loaded instrument of that Kontakt instance.  (you do need to be playing notes that fall within the playable range of that instrument).

I hope the above makes sense, 

Bob Bone

1 hour ago, John said:

Have you set the channel? Kontakt relies on setting up the channel. Each instrument in Kontakt requires the MIDI channel match for the MIDI to trigger the sound. 

Slight clarification - when there are multiple instruments loaded into a Kontakt instance, then yes, the midi channels matter, and you have to properly match the Midi Output Channel for each midi track, to the corresponding midi channel for the instrument in the Kontakt instance. So, if the Kontakt instance has Piano, Strings, Organ, and Bass instruments loaded in that order, Kontakt will assign midi channel 1 to the first loaded instrument (Piano), and auto-increment the midi channel for each additional loaded instrument - giving: Piano on midi channel 1, Strings on midi channel 2, Organ on 3, and Bass on 4.  That would then mean that you would need to set the Midi Output Channel for each of the 4 associated midi tracks, to Piano midi track to midi channel 1, Strings midi track to midi channel 2, Organ midi track to 3, and Bass midi track to 4. 

For each of the midi tracks, it is also easiest to simply set them to Omni (None), because whichever midi track is either in focus (and using the Cakewalk default to automatically turn on a midi track's Input Echo to On), it will take any midi-generated data (like from a midi controller), and it will dutifully route that to whatever synth is assigned in the midi track's Output, using either the default of midi channel 1, or the Midi Output Channel setting for that track, and then the Kontakt instance will react according to that incoming midi channel's data, and process that to produce the appropriate output sounds (Piano, Strings, Organ, or Bass). 

If multiple midi tracks have the Input Echo turned On, then the midi data will be transmitted on whatever midi channels are associated with each of those tracks, resulting in a layered sound (not likely desired for some combinations of sound - like piano and bass not likely a good sounding thing - but perhaps piano and strings playing together would be desired).

This is not the case when there is a single instrument loaded into the Kontakt instance, because it will default to using midi channel 1, and when there is no Midi Output Channel set on a midi track pointing at that Kontakt instance, it also defaults to midi channel 1, so no explicit midi channel setting need be done for it all to work.

Bob Bone

On 10/14/2019 at 4:20 PM, eric chevrier said:

hi bob I tried everthing I can think of un install old service center no luck same message thanks eric

1) The old Service Center app will not work for anything now under the control of Native Access.

2) I again ask, what Operating System version and build are you running on this computer?

3) If you have not yet done so, I encourage you to review the other post that included a link to a thread in the Native Instruments forums.  Perhaps something there would help you resolve your issues.

4) If you have not manually uninstalled Native Access, through the Windows Control Panel, you might consider doing that (launch Control Panel, then under Programs you will see a link to Uninstall a Program, click on it, and Windows will display a list of programs - scroll down as needed to find Native Instruments Native Access, highlight it, and then click on Uninstall up at the top of the page, and go through whatever options are displayed for removing Native Access.  Then, download and install it again, from the Native Instruments site.  Please note that you should review the Native Access settings, to make sure they match where you want content installed, etc.

All kinds of folks run Native Access every day, with no issues, so whatever is happening, it is most likely local to your computer's environment.  You might consider temporarily disabling your antivirus software, only during the download and install of the newest Native Access from the NI web site.  (or, exclude the Native-Instruments web site from the antivirus software, which would leave it running, but it would then not scan your activity from that site).  Also, if you happen to have any kind of automatic Registry cleaner software, you might want to look into whether or not that is interfering with the normal operation/install of Native Access.

Bob Bone

2 hours ago, MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) said:

Have you checked the WayBackMachine at archive.org?

Good idea - though there would be a chunk of stuff predating the world wide web, which if memory serves, was birthed in 1993.

Use the following terms in a Google search, then click on the link it comes back with for Images, and you will see lots of pictures going all the way back: 

             images: twelve tone systems cakewalk

Bob Bone

43 minutes ago, abacab said:

I saved  my default template for Cakewalk with the Master bus set initially to -6bB just for this reason, as I audition a lot of VSTi presets. I hate those loud surprises from many instruments.

I suppose setting a limiter on the bus would work about the same.

I just hover my mouse over the VSTi volume knob/slider, before playing a note through it, and that gives me an idea of how hot the signal will be, coming out of it.  It just takes a second to check it. 

The only thing to remember, is that for most synths, that volume setting is associated with each preset, so it has to be either managed when flipping through presets, OR, drop the audio track volume way down when sifting through presets, and then set the gain properly when the desired preset is finally loaded.

And, as noted above, a limiter would do the trick too.

Bob Bone

Using Kontakt to load and convert SF2 sounds to Kontakt NKI instruments.

https://itstillworks.com/convert-sf2-nki-8653870.html

Might be worth a try.

Bob Bone

I tend to save presets for plugins, where I set the output volume low enough to then not require me to massively drop gain for its audio track(s).  I typically name such modified presets with a prefix that identifies they are set for recording levels, as opposed to those I would use live.  Simply adding '00-DAW ' at the front of any saved preset, makes them all group up at the top of the list of presets, and thus easy to find.  It doesn't need to be precise, but since I tend to set gain for tracks at -18 dB, I will set preset volumes for those to be used in Cakewalk, to be down around -18 to -15 dB, and then I can fine tune it with the Cakewalk track gain knob.

Bob Bone 

The input control in a plugin IS a gain control, to clarify an earlier point - gain/trim refers to the level of input signal, whereas volume refers to the output.

In the analog days, there was a lot of tape and gear noise, and it would get worse if gain had to be turned up to make up for it being too low earlier in the signal chain.  Turning it up would also raise the level of noise, so the idea was to try to adjust the gain as early in the signal chain as possible, and then not drop it down too far during its path through the effects, because if it had to get turned back up again it would bring up the noise levels.

This is not so much a worry in the days of digital, but the principle is still valid.  If you start at the top of the signal path, and get the gain set to a good level, and then try to keep that signal level consistent through each effect (you can check by doing an A/B test of signal with a given plugin on, and compare it with that plugin off - try to keep each effect 'neutral' in its output volume versus its input gain), you should be in pretty good shape.

Also, the more tracks and buses you have, the more it adds up by the time it gets to the Master Bus, so keep that in mind, and keep an eye on it all.

Bob Bone

Kontakt 5 can happily be installed along with Kontakt 6. 

Can you please list your operating system version and build?

Also, is it up to date with any Windows maintenance?

Lastly, please detail what exactly is happening during the installation, because without that information, it is pretty much impossible to help you get things working correctly.  Native Instruments installation management software - Native Access, should be used to do the installation, and if there is any error message popping up, please detail what it says.

Bob Bone

1 hour ago, Ellsworth Hall said:

I'm running Windows 10, Build 17763.

I just created a new project and opened UVI Workstation and loaded a Synth Anthology 2 patch. IT WORKS!

So you're right - some issue with that project I called up (Diverti.cwp) although the other VST work fine in it. ????? Go figure - There were 2 tracks routed to the UVI so I guess I'll have to reassign to some other VST or import the MIDI data into a new project that can load the UVI.

Thanks for your help, Robert!

Glad to help - and that you didn't end up having to try all kinds of time-consuming things to get it working again.  You can do copy/paste operations to populate midi tracks from the troubled project to  a new project, that seems the most expedient way.  Just open a new project while you are in the troubled one, and you can select all the midi clips from each midi track, do a copy - grabbing markers and meter/tempo changes, and paste into the new project.  Same with audio tracks.  That should get you all populated and then you just need to load up any synth instances and of course set up tracks and routing assignments and such, but it should be pretty straight forward.

Also, I seem to be running Windows Pro Version 1903 Build 18362, so there might well be some maintenance out there you can apply to Windows.

WAHOO to you working again!

Bob Bone

Hey @bitflipper, just curious - why do you suggest not exporting in Broadcast Wave format?  I do this all the time, because it embeds the date and time into the file header, and imports directly at the proper place in time, at the other end.  I have done this countless times, when mixing in a more elaborate studio, for example, and have never encountered an error in doing this.  Again, just curious on your rationale behind that recommendation.

Bob Bone

1 hour ago, Ellsworth Hall said:

Also, the edit buttons on the left aren't working. If I try and leave the OSC screen by clicking on EDIT or STEP or LFO  it does nothing. Which leads me to suspect Cakewalk is not hosting the VST properly. I've checked the SoundBanks search path and that's fine (work okay in the standalone). So it's not that it doesn't "see" the sounds. In fact as you see in the screen shot, it loaded them (I have two loaded in Part 1 and 2).

Quite strange - I had mentioned that it is working on my system, because it would rule out the issue being something generically wrong with Cakewalk.  That it is working on my system would point to some local condition on your computer as being the likely cause of this issue.

What version of Windows are you running?

Are you up to date with Windows system maintenance?

Have you tried setting up a new project in Cakewalk, and then loading up an instance of UVI Workstation?  (in case the other project is having issues)

In your project, is the Input Echo On button lit, for the midi track connected to the UVI Workstation instance?

Is the associated audio track(s) pointing properly to pick up the audio output from the UVI Workstation instance?

Since midi activity shows up when you trigger notes from your midi controller, for the midi track that points to the UVI Workstation instance, if you arm that midi track for recording, and initiate recording you playing notes on the midi controller, is Cakewalk displaying  the captured midi data after you stop recording, in the Track Pane?

If midi data is being recorded by Cakewalk, does it look OK when you examine it when you view that midi track's data in Event List?

Bob Bone

I have UVI Workstation, and the Synth Legacy sound bank, and this works just fine in Cakewalk.

Please check your routing assignments in Cakewalk, for the midi track as well as the audio track.  Further, make sure you are either using the default midi channel 1 for the midi track and for UVI Workstation, OR make sure the channels match in the midi track's Midi Output Channel setting and the midi channel in UVI Workstation.

Do you see midi activity on the midi track, when playing notes on your physical midi controller?  (you will not see activity if playing on the keyboard in UVI Workstation).  If not, then make sure your midi controller can play other synths in Cakewalk - perhaps the USB connection moved to a different port, in which case you have to deselect the midi controller in Preferences, restart, then select the midi controller again in Preferences, as a Midi Input Device.

Bob Bone

Any message?

Bob Bone

If you are not seeing it in the Browser Pane, in the list by categories, perhaps it is hiding in a different category, such as the Uncategorized category.  I normally go through the Uncategorized category after installing plugins, and assign each plugin to an appropriate one - like for Kontakt, I switched it to Sampler, for instance.

If not there, then perhaps it got excluded by the Cakewalk Plugin Manager, for some reason.

Bob Bone

What Promidi is suggesting, is to change the Driver Mode, because Cakewalk will only list (Preferences > Audio > Devices) Input Drivers that match the selected Driver Mode - meaning that if the Driver Mode is set to ASIO, then you can only select audio devices that use ASIO audio input drivers.  So, in Preferences > Audio > Playback and Recording, select whatever Driver Mode you want, and now you can go back to Preferences > Audio > Devices and pick the Input Driver you want.  (also, don't forget to Apply the changes).

Bob Bone

6 hours ago, martsave martin s said:

on device manager USB hub,uncheck all usb-hub (allow this computer to close this turn-off..)

If enabling the 'Share drivers with other programs' approach doesn't fix this for you, then you might consider altering the default Windows default behavior on something called USB Selective Suspend, which is what was suggested in the 1st reply above.

A little clarification to the above might help: Windows, by default has an advanced power plan setting 'enabled' that will result in Windows disconnecting USB-connected devices after a period of being idle.  This can cause things like midi controllers or USB-connected audio interfaces to become unavailable to Cakewalk, and for folks doing music production - like using Cakewalk, this setting should be changed to disable this Windows behavior.

There are a couple of ways of changing this behavior in Windows.

The first way is as noted above, which is to go into Windows Device Manager, and then to expand the category 'Universal Serial Bus Controllers'.  Then, double-click on each USB Hub entry, to bring up its Properties.  If you don't see a tab for Power Management, you don't need to do anything with that particular entry, so close Properties and move on to the next entry.  For those entries that DO have a tab in Properties for Power Management, click on that tab, and then, if checked, remove the check for the option labeled: 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power', and then click OK - then close Properties for that entry and move on to the next one, etc.,

The other way of accomplishing the change to the default USB Selective Suspend behavior, is to edit the Windows Power Plan setting called 'USB Selective Suspend'.  To do this, launch Control Panel, then click on System and Security > Power Options, and at this screen, it is recommended to also select the High Performance power plan.  OK, then for the High Performance plan, click on Change Plan Settings, and then click on Change Advanced Power Settings.  Now, scroll down to, and expand, the category for 'USB Settings', and expand USB Selective Suspend Setting, and change the setting to 'Disabled', click Apply, then click OK and back your way out.

I hope the above helps explain things a bit, and hopefully, one of the above methods will fix this issue for you.

Bob Bone

Another way to accomplish turning off the Windows power management option that, by default, disconnects USB devices after some period of time, to conserve power, is to go into Control Panel > System and Security > Power Options > Change Plan Settings (you want to choose the High Performance power plan, by the way), and then go into its options, and then click on Change Advanced Power Settings.

So, once you get into the Advanced Power Settings, scroll down to find and expand 'USB Settings'.  Then, expand USB Selective Suspend Setting, and click on the setting value, and change it to Disabled.

SO - either the above method, or doing it in Device Manager, will accomplish the same thing, which is to tell Windows not to disconnect any USB devices after some period of being idle.

That should keep your USB-connected devices connected in Windows, which should clear up that error.

Bob Bone