Linux Daws Are The Best

2 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

I thought you were leaving.

 

All in good time.

16 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Based on these compelling statistics, screw Linux. Where's the FreeBSD version of Cakewalk?

I think the 4.93% might be Temple OS

2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

It works just fine on my system. 😁

Am running Linux, that must me whats wrong.

1 hour ago, pwalpwal said:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

/hth

Your link is malformed, and according to wikipedia 42% of web devices use the linux kernel, that does not include embeded devices or games consoles, the word computer seems to have a different meaning to Cakewalk fans.

10 hours ago, msmcleod said:

I think @Lord Tim's post with the baker's analogy and @azslow3's post sum the situation up quite nicely.

Cakewalk by BandLab/SONAR are heavily reliant on the Windows operating system, and are extremely "Windows Compliant" in that regard.  That's why much older versions of SONAR will work on more modern versions of Windows, largely without issue.

This is mostly due to historical reasons.  Cakewalk/SONAR has always been based on Microsoft technologies - first on DOS, and then on Windows.  It leverages as much as it can from the operating system to make it perform well, which was very much needed on the slow hardware of the past.

The SONAR for Mac project (which was before my time as a staff member) looked into ways at getting it to run on a Mac with help from the guys at Codeweavers.  It did pretty well to be honest, but there were a bunch of performance issues and plugin support was a nightmare.  To cut a long story short,  to make it work well would have taken too long to develop, and cost far too much - something Gibson at the time was not prepared to fund.

As @azslow3 has mentioned,  various versions of SONAR have run on Linux in the past under Wine (in fact our CTO,  Noel was on the Wine team for a number of years), and again this was due to the tight integration with Windows, enabling Wine to handle the various calls correctly.  Plugin support and performance were yet again the main issues though, and the same time/cost issues apply to making it a Linux native app.

I developed on / managed developers working soley on Linux for 11 years prior to joining the Cakewalk team, and for many years prior to that had to work with both Windows and Linux.   I personally think it's an awesome operating system, but not for running a DAW on (in fact, I've pretty much Linux for everything apart from running a DAW). It's not that it's not capable - it certainly is - but lack of professional driver support and lack of commercial plugin support make it a non-starter for the majority of users. 

Great explanation, thanks. I can tell there will be no Cakewalk for linux coming, but if Reaper and Waveform can run on Linux and do so very well, then Linux can not be said to be good for lots of things but not for a DAW, when clearly it can be.

10 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

I believe you meant to say:

💩

 

Really, folks, look at this guy's content (as well has his change of handle). The only places he's "contributed" to are the "Delusional Linux" topic in Coffee House and here. The "is that all you got," the change of handle, the repeated assertions that he's "out of here" yet always coming back, it's obvious.

He's a skillful troll, and it's been fun to play Poke The Troll with him, but he's just getting a kick out of the attention and how much he can bait us.

And sincerely, Mr. Linux Advocates Are The Worst, my (red) hat is off to you. You played the 90's "Linux Loony" to a T. It was fun to revisit my younger days. 😄

Happy to help,  but your wrong, typical name caller, am no troll.

10 hours ago, User 905133 said:

My bad.  I have a lifelong habit of being late to spot malevolent intent.  

I am waiting on a reply from the site management team, then I will be gone.

9 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

This. Horses for courses. Linux is great at what it does best, which is hosting servers, enabling people to get extra life out of older hardware, and provide a viable productivity desktop for people and organizations who wish to save money on OS licenses. It also provides an alternative for users who don't care for Microsoft's and Apple's policies and behavior.

The primary function of a company is to make money. If they can't make enough profit from some activity (even indirectly), they will either not engage in that activity or cease to engage in it. Witness the impending freeze of freeware CbB and advent of payware Cakewalk Sonar. The "building brand awareness" era was great, but about to come to an end. The 5-year introductory offer. 😄

It's difficult for audio software companies to make money on Linux because A, there are so very few people using it for audio, and B, frankly, Linux users are used to getting most of their software for free. The potential customers are LOUD, but few.

I would pay for any software I need on Linux, I recently bought pianoteq which is not cheap,  and Reaper, and if Cakewalk was available I would pay for it.

1 hour ago, Sakini said:

I repeat Linux is very good for certain uses. Especially for servers. But does that mean that there is a large ecosystem for music around Linux?

Without ideology, you have to look at reality as it is. How many professional studios use Linux for production?.

The fact that Linux is great for servers doesn't matter if it's harder to find the software you want for music. I buy an android smatphone it's because I can install my applications. And not because android is based on Linux.

If I need to buy a car, I don't need a jet engine just because those engines are absolutely more efficient.

I used Ubuntu Studio for a long time with qtractor, hydrogen, zynAddsubFx , Calf and others software. (I dont like Ardour workflow, that not depends on windows/linux ). all these software are ok, but to switch to a more efficient daw I had to switch to CbB and S1. And so I changed my OS. I chose the OS according to my softwares and not the other way around. The goal is to do music not computer

I choose the OS first, I believe in a good foundation, ms is not that, its getting worse too. Don't believe me, just hang around another while with ms and all will come clear. I tried ubuntu studio, it was not as efficient on resources as I like,  I moved on to Reaper because it uses way less resources on Lubuntu, which is cut down to keep it lean and fast.

57 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

Since I work and develop under Linux, I always have X2 in Wine, with several Cakewalk and other plug-ins. The rest in Windows VM.

Unfortunately primary music software and hardware is not Linux aware. In reality that could be almost zero effort for plug-ins to support Linux, they all use multi-platform frameworks which are Linux aware. Native Instrument is using Qt (f.e. for Kontakt), which original platform in Linux... But they don't do this. Simply while they can... So for audio recording,  Linux is fine. For MIDI it is not worse the trouble. One day that can flip, as I have written most plug-ins can appear under Linux within a day, there are DAWs there, VST3 is also officially supported on Linux. But till that happens, no reason to convince other DAWs.

BTW most computers in the word are probably running Linux. Just not end-user PCs, which some people think are "the only computers". But there are servers/farms/grids/clouds, Android devices (phones, TVs, etc.), tiny and embedded devices (f.e. consumer routers), which are technically speaking are computers running Linux. Other UNIX direct successors was no longer popular after related companies disappear (SUN, SGE, DEC), but Apple has decided to go BSD way (probably not liking Linux license). Note that many "own ways" Microsoft was trying with time was also replaced by "normal" UNIX concepts. I mean till now no one has really managed to make something better then this "vintage"  concept 😏  

Hi azslow3 , happy to hear from you. Good news regarding the midi side, I have a Kawai piano, usb midi out, straight into the laptop running Lubuntu, from there into pianoteq , or even straight into Reaper with pianoteq playing back the sound as a plugin on the midi track. I also connect the mics through a new SSL 12 usb interface into Reaper on Lubuntu, no driver to install, just worked straight off the bat.

Anyway, the door is closed, no Cakewalk for Linux.  Moving on.

2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

C'mon, now I know you're roleplaying. That's another one from the Linux moonie playbook: make an unsupported claim that, even if true, would have no bearing on the "discussion." Sure, the fact that NASA uses Linux for some things proves that it's good for audio work!

Speaking of NASA, do you know what audio software they used when studying and cleaning up the audio from Neil Armstrong's "One small step" speech? GoldWave for Windows. Apparently when NASA has audio work to do, they use systems other than their Linux ones.

But really, who gives a crap what NASA or anyone else uses? 

So someone warned you away from posting a Linux beg on this forum and you did it anyway? Are most other Linux users as smart as you?

I am about 75% convinced that your schtick is a put-on. Is this for a class you're taking or just your own amusement?

Don't be confused, I was told this place was closed to Linux, being an optimist I had to check this out, they were right. You all deserve windows, keep on using it. And NASA were using windows 98 when the rest of the ms fan club had moved on, why, because of bugs and instability creeping in. And as for the man on the moon movie, another prime example of people falling for big tech, surly they wouldn't lie or mislead anyone.

3 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

How do you know that someone you just met uses Linux?

He's already told you 15 times how superior it is.

Who are you referring to,  happy to see you can count.

Just now, Byron Dickens said:

Bullshit.

Just now, Byron Dickens said:

Bullshit.

No, you need to do some research.

51 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Who are they? Microsoft? Microsoft is a software company. If you're talking about modern CPUs running a MINIX 3 server on lower hardware rings...Do you know how complex modern CPUs are? You can almost count on the fingers of your hands the amount of people that truly understand hardware at component level and those people are too busy being well paid by companies to do actual work as opposed to silly little mind games like "spy chips."

Disabling hybrid shutdown and hibernation usually solves 100% of those issues but at the cost of taking a bit longer to bring the computer back up from a cold boot or full hibernate.

As long as those are concrete examples, unlike your last bit of text...

And I'm sure the whole Linux community must be proud of the disservice you're doing to them.

No mind games, other than the one your in, never mentioned Minix server either,  you have lost the plot. And no, I am for linux, there are many on here who are not, they are doing the disservice. 

39 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

The sad part about that particular statement is that if the current Windows offerings are terrible, then every single company which also makes Linux native software and plugins are also terrible because they all have Windows versions. Even Ardour has a Windows version.

Why do they have windows version though, because people are tied into windows, it would be stupid not to have them. People are like sheep, they follow, I thought Cakewalk could be a leader, I know and admit am wrong, I was told it before I posted here, had to experience it to be sure.

1 hour ago, Sakini said:

Ok linux is very good for some things(I am also a Linux user since many years) but linux for just linux has  no sense. If you want to make music you will also need compatible softwares, plugins, audio interface etc , computer technology is not the only thing to take into account., maybe it is a  vicious circle but if linux is not used by a lot of people daw/plugins company will not have to spend a lot of money for few people. Will you be ok to pay a linux cakewalk version 2 to 3 times more expensive to to make it profitable ?  

Idem for plugins , hardware ?

 

Hi Sakini.  Linux has come a long way, there is other Daws to run on it, other plugins, and I just buy an audio interface that works in both Linux, its easy now. As long as what you are using works for you, that's all that matters.  I would just like to see Cakewalk run on Linux, it won't happen given all the opposition.

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

"Is that all I got (sic)?" I was merely agreeing with your statement.

Be careful what you wish for.

I've been following Linux' fortunes since early 1992. I downloaded it from a BBS on floppies and gave it to one of my company's programmers because we had chattedf about him using UNIX at university and I thought he would be interested in this thing. I have a Linux box in my home right now, a retired 32-bit iMac.

I've lost track of how many Linux systems I've built. I find the OS fun to tinker with and useful for lightweight productivity things like web browsing, email and word processing. Libre Office runs great on it, so does Chrome, and for the vast bulk of people, that's most of what they do on a desktop computer.

I use my computer for those things, but I'm also an enthusiast of audio production and games, two areas Linux is terrible for.

For audio production work, where it absolutely falls on its a55 is when I try to set up audio on it for anything more complex than an onboard Realtek chip.

For games, nobody makes decent games for Linux.

The usual Linux apologist answer to this is something along the lines of "it's the fault of the hardware companies for not supporting it." "If they would only make games for Linux, people would buy them." Followed by a list of software that actually does support Linux. I've heard the pitch a hundred times, it never changes.

Like Sakini said, I haven't seen a Linux weenie like you in decades. If this is some kind of 90's roleplaying or an elaborate troll, I have to hand it to you, you sound just like they did back then. Participating in this topic reminds me of my younger days, when the Linux-smitten would loudly proclaim how Linux was going to take over the market "real soon now" and that Windows was doomed. I haven't seen one of you boys (and you're always boys) around in a long old time. Here in the Bay Area the younger ones tended to be into facial hair, polyamory and sword collecting and the older ones kinda looked like Hollywood serial killers.

The market has had a very long time to speak, and it has and continues to speak clearly: the demand for audio production software on Linux is tiny. Do not mistake LOUD for large. I imagine that the notable commercial DAW software companies that do support Linux, Cockos and Tracktion, did it mostly to shut the Linux whiners up.

"Linux is no longer an underdog in music creation circles and is much much better than the current Windows offerings, which are terrible."

The first part of that statement is not quite true, Linux, while indeed being a dog for music production, is not an underdog, because to be an underdog, the dog must be in the fight, which it isn't. You think Linux is The Answer. You are convinced that it's going to take over the world real soon now, and that you're smarter about the software market than the people who run Adobe, BandLab, Presonus, Acoustica, Steinberg, Avid, Magix, iZotope, MeldaProduction, Waves, UAD, IK Multimedia and Image Line who are going to be left behind as the Linux platform assumes its rightful supremacy. You're that market-savvy, yet somehow you got the idea that coming to a forum for a Windows-only commercial product and whining and picking fights would be a good way to drum up support for your favorite computing platform.

The current Windows offerings are "terrible?" Cakewalk is a "Windows offering" that you're begging to be ported to Linux. You went on about how great Cakewalk is, you do realize that what you're asking for is a DAW on Linux that works as well as Cakewalk does on Windows. You had to run Windows to know that Cakewalk was so great. And that's pretty much how it is in the world of audio production. The software runs on Windows and MacOS/OSX/whatever Apple's term for it is (funny that when Apple finally realized that MacOS 9 was crap and needed a full rewrite, they had the sense to base its successor on FreeBSD).

Why not just go download a copy of REAPER and use that? Support a company that supports your platform! Boycott the rest into submission. REAPER used to have kind of a Linux-y loudmouth would-you-please-just-STFU culture around it and if you're lucky, you might find some of those people in their user community to hang with.

Iinux is on most of the computers on the planet, not windows, there is a reason. Do you know what version of windows NASA uses.

And yes, I like cakewalk, I stripped out windows to make the most of it, yet I still find Reaper more responsive, I put aside the glitches that occurred in Cakewalk after each microsoft updated because I wanted to give Cakewalk the benefit of the doubt, after all it worked until windows changed and broke it, so how could it be Cakewalk's doing. I liked it for sure, but under Linux everything I have tried just works for me, especially without needing the most up to date expensive processors just to keep ms moving along. When I refereed to windows offering being terrible, I was actually talking about windows 10 and 11.

1 hour ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Not to say Microsoft doesn't collect telemetry data, but claiming this is the reason Windows 10 has performance issues is just fear mongering and incorrect.

Oh really, do your homework, they took advantage of the programmer who wrote the Minix OS, to shrink it down even further so they could use it in their spy chip, also tell me why the fan never stopped spinning and the computer could barely do anything under ms crap, yet as soon as Lubuntu or MX Linux were installed the computer fan stopped constantly spinning and the resource usage is barely noticeable, so what was ms doing that required so many resources, I could give many more examples, but I doubt you would believe those either, stick up for ms if you want, they are fully dependent on people like you to cover up for them and keep their gravy train thundering on.

I had no idea Corel were invovled in Linux, I have Corel Draw, nearly typed Corel Daw there. I would not be thinking of Cakewalk on Linux other than I like Cakewalk, and Linux, and I see that apple and ms for their different reasons becoming less advantageous. Linux would already be more popular if it came pre installed, like apple and ms do with their offerings, that way people would not have that barrier to overcome, download, create a bootable iso, partitioning and following the click click installer. But my teenage daughter had no issue with it and she is the most unlikely candidate, she is musical, not technically minded in the least, and she had no trouble, and said linux was much cleaner and easier to use than windows 11, she came from the apple arena, never had anything else until a year ago. In any event I shall retire from here, but will be back to tell you all I told you so.

1 minute ago, User 905133 said:

I am not really a basher of Linux.  I can't comment on when others last tried Linux, But I last tried several distros August 2008, including Ubuntu Studio and gNewSense and I have to agree that Linux has come a log way since 1995 (or actually 2000, when I previously gave Linux a serious look).  

Speaking just for myself, my choice not to use Linux is not based on it being either worse or even different (as in the sense of being unfamiliar and requiring time to learn).  Moreover, it is based on my needs.

And I do understand expressing personal preferences and even making polite requests. 

Peace.

Reflecting back, I was not pushed to Linux, I had cheaper laptops that would bearly work under windows, so I took the decision to try Linux, that was all it took for me, I never had any big issues with Linux, way less in fact than I had with windows. I could not wait on Reaper to come to Linux, people thought it would never happen, and yet it did. 

I just see the big two making mistakes that are driving people over to Linux, I partake in many groups, where music plays a big part, and I was shocked to find they use Linux. I see the door is firmly closed to it here, and I have a feeling there will be a missed opportunity to support a growing crowd instead of a shrinking one.

I believe when hunger sets in because the bakery is not reliable, people will move elsewhere, hope this post is still here in 5 years time.

32 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

Not to mention Linux is also better without naysayers that use ProTools, Cubase, Studio One, Logic...

Cakewalk by Bandlab and Cakewalk Sonar going forward is a Windows application. Rewriting this for Mac was impractical, so rewriting it for Linux which has far less market share doesn't make any kind of sense at all. This is commercial software, so they must take that into consideration. Why isn't there a Linux version of most of the other major DAWs? There's got to be a reason other than "BUT IT'S TOTALLY BETTER THAN WINDOWS AND MAC!!!" don't you think?

Cakewalk Next is cross-platform with Mac and would have a better chance of being ported to Linux, but what is the incentive for them doing so other than keeping a very small minority of people happy who are not using the platforms that almost every other commercial DAW does?

The reality is this: This is commercial software, and they have to pay their staff, and keep their users happy enough to keep coming back. The Cakewalk team isn't very big, and I don't think many people here think it would be a good use of their time to port to a platform that has a comparatively small userbase for commercial DAWs instead of keeping the feature updates and bug fixes going for their products that sell to a wider userbase.

Linux is great, I've used it since the mid-90s myself. (I still have PTSD trying to make an Intel740 video card work properly with a CRT monitor.) But there's really no compelling reason for most people to move to Linux when MacOS and Windows works fine for the overwhelming majority of users. There are some great DAWs that do work on Linux though, so if it feels that far superior to you than Mac or Windows, then they probably will fit your needs better than Cakewalk.

Overlooking what even young people are seeing, apple crapping out early and now cheaping out too, they are buying windows computers, and when they get their belly full of windows taking up half the resources available for spying and running the most inefficient OS of them all, is it really difficult to see how this will end, it is if you believe in the Titanic that is windows, or that apple of old is the same apple we have now.

Why not buy a card that works with linux, that is what people who want linux to run do. And time will tell regarding the decline of windows as a result of the crap they are at, same with apple, people don't expect their more expensive chips to perform worse than their very first M1, word is getting around.

20 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Considering Cakewalk nowadays doesn't have the same amount of mind share and market usage it used to have when it was a paid product in the past, maybe a Linux version would be a nice differential which could potentially gather a different type of cust....

Eh...That will never happen.

And from the resistance to Cakewalk on Linux on here, Linux is better off without these kind of nay sayers.

6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

That much is quite obvious.

Right back at you, Genius, is that all you got, have you ever tried Linux, if so then please share your experience.