Jim Stamper

Thanks David

I have a pretty extensive background in PC hardware & software support and troubleshooting. I don't think the Bakers would be able to identify the problem without sitting at my exact PC. Because as mentioned, this has happened to me for years on different PCs & configurations & projects.

I run only mainstream plug-ins, I keep everything up to date and as "standard" as possible, all of my software and hardware is new within 2 years. It's hard for me personally to believe it's a rare problem, although I'm sure not everyone has encountered it.

Also it's possible it would take a tremendous amount of time for both me and the Bakers to work through it to a resolution. I don't want to go down that particular 'rabbit hole'.

My suggestion is that an error message of "General Error" provides no clue on what might be happening or where to look for failure points.  It's hardly more helpful than "catastrophic failure".  Or those times when Cakewalk just stops running and exits to your desktop without warning - another problem some of us have seen on occasion.

My hope is that the software could be improved to capture and report more detail about problems like this.

General Error when saving ... 

Yes, I can resolve it by playing the project for a few seconds, then Save is successful, every time.

I'm just tired of this bug, I've been seeing it for years, on different projects, versions of Cakewalk, versions of Windows, PC's, hard drives. 

It usually happens on older projects, and then maybe 1 out of 5 times when I Save projects that are prone to it. 

I've never had it happen on any other app except Cakewalk.  Obviously I'm not the only one, why is it still an issue after all these years? If Cakewalk generates this error, couldn't the error somehow be modified to capture some internal detail in order to better troubleshoot it? 

Who would provide all the free effort to maintain bug fixes, releases for Windows updates, and new features??  

I wouldn't bet my DAW on it ("too good to be true")

I've only stayed with it this long due to familiarity and a catalog of legacy projects ever since the DOS days. I often update old projects.

I bought "lifetime support" (another too good to be true) after talking to Craig Anderton at a conference .

I've been hanging on by a thread ever since Bandlab takeover (free ... another too good to be true, nice while it lasted)

Each big Cakewalk transition gives me more gray hair 😥😂.

18 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Yes you can remove the Bandlad Assistant. It serves no purpose unless you use the Bandlab app I think. Actually I never had to install it on this new computer. 

Thanks

I just installed the 2024.2 update following the update prompts starting with my CbB Help menu. I ran Setup, saw the red 'not activated yet' dialog box. I logged into my Bandlab account, saw an 'activation successful or complete' dialog box. Then I opened an old test project and it seems to play fine.  I haven't yet tried to create any new work which would really test out the operation.

So, I hope my installation is Okay. Only time will tell. One thing I'm not clear about is whether to uninstall the Bandlab Assistant app from my PC.

I don't understand what happened with Pathfinder, but if Pathfinder missed something during the installation process ... then, hey we've all been there and done that, more than once, and gotten frustrated by it. I hope that Bandlab is taking a look to see if something in the process needs to be more clear.

Anyway good luck Pathfinder going forward.

How long can I continue to use version: 2022.11 build 021?

I have not updated yet ... watching the problems in this thread is concerning. 

I always have multiple projects in progress with commitments and deadlines, no time for downtime.

Thanks

19 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@Jim Stamper - we've identified the issue and a fix will be available in the next CbB drop.

That is most excellent. Thank you all for being proactive and diligent.  Jim

On 9/1/2023 at 11:35 AM, Glenn Stanton said:

simple experiment - collapse a stereo track into mono - level?  collapse a stereo clip into mono - level? generally collapsing stereo into mono is a 3db gain. track, clip, buss, etc. of course final level is determined by content of L+R. so do the test with noise to assess the new level correctly - note that pan laws (like -3db center) can also impact the perceived results. 🙂 

e.g. i take a -18db stereo noise clip, bounce to mono  = -15db noise clip.

If I understand this issue correctly .... I thought it has existed by design for many years, not only in Cakewalk but most other DAWS, and is strictly the result of how you set your Pan Laws. Is there something else going on outside of the Pan Law settings?

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@Jim Stamper - can you send a copy of your .cwp file to @Jonathan Sasor?  We'll take a look at it.

Thank you Mark & Jonathan,

I have sent a skinny version of the project with just a few audio tracks ... because it needs to fit under your Max total file size, and also I don't want to share the music at this time. It appears the problem still exists in the skinny version.

I am using an Intel NUC Enthusiast PC less than 1 year old, 64GB RAM, Windows 11, Presonus Studio 1824 interface. Soft synths from Native Instruments, East West, Toontrack, and Spitfire Audio BBC SO Discover. All software and hardware is 100% up to date with the latest releases and drivers.

8 hours ago, Andres Medina said:

I see... if you can see and hear the tempo changes, but they are not reflected in the timeline or the left pane, that's weird (may be a bug?) I have never experienced something like that before. Interesting ...

Perhaps other users can help. Or even the support team. Seems like a technical issue within CW, not user related.

Yes, I believe its a bug. I was hoping to find other users who might have found a solution. 

38 minutes ago, Andres Medina said:

According to your image, it seems that there are no tempo nodes until measure 33, and it seems to be the same original 130 bpm tempo. Same for measure 34.

That's why the left pane does not reflect your changes, as there are none?

Measure 69 shows a tempo change to 125.02, but it's out of the range in your pic.

Andres, I wish it was that easy.  But there IS a tempo change at measure 32-33. The problem is that the Tempo track display is not showing it in the left pane or the timeline. But the change is really there -  you can watch the  bpm indicator change in real time in the Transport module, and you can hear it. (PS. The tempo change at measure 69 is a different one, and it is correctly shown in the Tempo track display, so I did not include that region in the pic.)

Here is a new pic that shows how the Transport module tempo is correct, while the Tempo track display is not

I'm working on a project that has a tempo change in the middle.   In measure 32, it slows down from 130bpm to 125bpm for 1 measure. In measure 33 it goes back to 130bpm.

The actual tempo change is OK, you can hear it slow down, you can see the tempo change occurring real time in the Transport Module.

However, the Tempo Track display (on the left), and  the Tempo Track timeline, do not reflect the tempo change. It shows the Nodes in the right spot where the change should be, but it won't show the change.

I've used the Tempo Track in several other projects, never had a problem until now. 

PS. It doesn't matter what Tempo Curve or Jump I assign, I've tried them all

20 hours ago, sjoens said:

This would be nice but don't think it possible. 

However, there is this: https://legacy.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=CakewalkSonar&language=3&help=NewFeatures.064.html

Yep, that's exactly the problem. Too bad it isn't a feature, at least not yet.

Thanks

I use the mouse wheel frequently for scrolling, that's all I want it to do.

But in Console view the mouse wheel controls volume if you happen to hover there.  In Track view it controls Volume or Pan if you click on those controls. I'm not sure what other mischief the Mouse Wheel can do.

In my case this is causing me to occasionally mess up my mixes without knowing how it happened.

6 minutes ago, scook said:

Could be something particular with the actual characters used in the names.

For example, I have seen users place dots in file names.

While permitted by the OS, I don't recommend using them in project file names. 

 

Thanks, I don't put odd characters in file names. I did it exactly as the format below from the OP

On 6/2/2023 at 5:02 PM, Jim Stamper said:

I have a project name in this format project name.cwp and I wanted to save a copy of it

I did a "Save Copy As" in this format: bak project name.cwp

51 minutes ago, gustabo said:

Sounds like you may have a problem with your filetable in Windows.
Run chkdsk in an elevated administrator rights command window.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/chkdsk?tabs=event-viewer

 

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea, but I'm not going to get into troubleshooting right now. I spent years in a day job troubleshooting PC issues. It's usually a process of elimination and can take a lot of time.  Plus, if there's a name for this Cakewalk symptom ("Poof") then it isn't just me who's being affected, and I only have this issue with Cakewalk, no other apps.  It might be a good idea if Cakewalk would take a look at how their code handles Windows filetable requests.

The above problem happened again a few minutes ago. I had a project that wouldn't open (It Poofed! while opening).

I re-named it. It opened.

At the very least, re-naming is something you can try if you have a Poof project

It's been awhile so I can't tell you the exact settings, but I've done this successfully with a project that had acoustic guitar audio tracks - which I could not re-record, and midi tracks.  I increased the tempo significantly from 130bpm to 160bpm. This change was requested by a  publisher. The midi tracks of course were mostly easy enough to re-bounce to audio at the new tempo.  All of the above posts are good tips.

Plus ... it's important how the Clip Properties are set for stretching, and which algorithm is used for off-line bouncing. I also think it works better if you have strong levels in a track before bouncing. Back-up your original project and create new copies you can use to test different methods until you get good results. For me, once I got the best results possible (radius mix advanced algorithm), I still had to edit the acoustic guitar tracks to fix notes or measures that didn't bounce very well. Sometimes I could do it by splicing in identical notes from elsewhere in the track, or from a different take of the guitar track (I always keep all the takes), or even from the original slow version if the tempo of the note (a held note) wasn't important. 

I finally got a good final mix, and I was pretty impressed that Cakewalk did this well with acoustic guitar. Of course it works better speeding up vs slowing down. The track did get published, it sounds fine, and it gets placements in TV shows and ads.

In my case, I don't see how it could be a plug-in. I changed absolutely nothing in the project. Only the file name.

"Poof!"  I like that - it's a perfect name for it!

PS. I stopped using TTS-1 years ago, it seemed to crash or freeze often. I gave up on it.

On 6/3/2023 at 3:47 PM, JnTuneTech said:

 

@Jim Stamper - Did you mention what volume control in Kontakt is affected for you?  Does the volume slider in the instrument GUI, or the Kontakt instrument header, show the change to zero as well? Or is it more like a mute button function reaction? -If you, for instance re-load the .nki of your instrument, does the volume return to normal that way?  How are you dealing with the aftermath? What control do you use to bring the volume back up again, and does it stick?  -Also, I would highly recommend not saving a mix right after hitting the Cakewalk reset function - though I know that can be problematic on its own...

The volume controls affected for me are every volume control in every patch I have loaded in the Kontakt GUI. The track volumes (set at 101) are not affected. I don't know about the Kontakt master volume, I didn't notice it - I've probably never changed that control away from the default. To deal with the aftermath ... I located an older version of the project (lucky to have one that was not affected), I saved each of those Kontakt multi's as a new multi (so it retained my desired patch volumes).  Then in the new project I replaced each Kontakt multi with my newly saved ones, then all the volumes were at the right level again. I just have to be careful from now on not to hit Reset for a stuck note. In fact the stuck note was not even in a Kontakt instrument, it was a different VST.

It was saved to the exact same location, permissions,  etc, the only change was the name.  I don't have the time for awhile to troubleshoot this with Cakewalk Support.  However I will comment that it's not too unusual for Cakewalk to behave this way ... that is, it will just exit (crash I guess) to the desktop while I'm working on a project ... or it will appear to be opening a project and then exit to the desktop. Seems like I've seen others mention this type of behaviour. 

8 hours ago, mettelus said:

Something also to bear in mind with some Kontakt instruments is that volume is bound to the MOD wheel (to give a breath and bow effect). As long as you do not touch the MOD wheel, volume will not adjust, but if you touch it once, then you have to either use it for every note played or insert a value for it at the beginning of the track (to reset it).

Good thought to keep in mind.  I did test that and it's not what happened in my case.

8 hours ago, Promidi said:

Personally, for any given MIDI track or Simple instrument track, what I do is I add an arbitrary volume event (CC7 and/or CC11) at the beginning couple measures ( before any note events.)

That's a good idea. It probably takes a little more time overall (adding automation to each track) vs. using the volume control in each patch like a mixer to set levels and continuously make adjustments.  I'm feeling like there's a bug in either Cakewalk or Kontakt which causes my unintended zero volumes when using Midi Reset.

20 minutes ago, scook said:

I don't use Kontakt but there are quite a few threads regarding Kontakt and the CbB per-project preference setting Zero Controllers When Play Stops

This is likely the cause of the volume change.

I saw those posts too, tried it, and it didn't make a difference. This is one of the "Other Options" referred to in my original post.

Also I forgot to mention that none of my other midi instruments (non Kontakt) were affected, they all maintained their Volume settings.

Thanks anyway.

I  totally messed up a complex mix today.  I had a stuck midi note so I clicked on Midi & Audio Reset. I very rarely have to do that.

Some time later, after a lunch break, I realized my whole mix was out of balance. Then I found my dozens of Kontakt7 (Player) patches were all at volume ZERO!

After more hours and hand-wringing, troubleshooting, and thinking what might have happened, I discovered that the Reset causes this. I can easily reproduce it now.

I tried unchecking the "Other Options" in the Preferences Midi section. I also made sure that Kontakt Instrument Options: Controller boxes are not checked. None of these settings make any difference.

I admit I'm not a midi wizard, but is it really supposed to work this way?? 

This is so flaky, I just wondered if anyone else has seen it? 

I have a project name in this format project name.cwp and I wanted to save a copy of it

I did a "Save Copy As" in this format: bak project name.cwp

That copy would not open at all. Cakewalk looked like it was opening each of the plug-ins, etc, but then Cakewalk just stopped and returned me to the Windows desktop. But Cakewalk was able to open other projects. I restarted the PC, same results. 

I wanted to flag that project for myself so I decided to rename it as this: bak project name is corrupt.cwp

And then it opened just fine!

I don't have time to try to troubleshoot this, just wondering if someone else might have an answer.