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Chris-J

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    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted · Edited by Chris-J
    typos

    4 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

    it's something i bought a while back in the SONAR days - but many "trial" versions of things often do noises, beeps, or blanking to remind you to buy the license 🙂 of course with the proper attitude and some work, you might combine a bunch of those into modern music 😉 

    I think Kanye West made an album with those noises on it to create some beats, LOL!

    A bit of a personal quirk of mine, I use the PC2A leveler compressor and the EQ in PC quite a bit, but I rarely use the other compressors in the PC.

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    I’ve disabled the Ethernet ports (I don’t use them), I’ve tuned a few things in Windows Sound Settings that I seemed to a have missed: turned OFF exclusive mode in Recording and turned off sound enhancement in Recording mode.  I turned OFF exclusive in Playback several days ago.

    I’m running in Airplane Mode, which is supposed to stop the Wi-Fi system from seeking out local Wi-Fi networks.

    I moved the Audio Interface to another USB port.

    I just ran the LatencyMon program for 9 minutes, 23.

    Highest measured interrupt was 795 uS

    Highest reported ISR was 330 uS

    Highest reported DPC runtime was 865 uS

    Reported hardpage fault count: 1833

     

    Big Thanks to everyone who helped out!

    • Like 1

    Engine Load Max/Dropouts

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    Get rid of any bloatware you have that shipped with your laptop.  You said you shut down some useless stuff, that should help.

    I find it helps if I set my laptop to “Airplane Mode”, plus I’ve turned off the Ethernet ports as I never use them anyway.

    Make sure the laptop is plugged in to AC, i.e. NOT ON BATTERY!

    You are on the right track if you are using ASIO.   Make sure you are using Focusrite’s most up to date ASIO driver with the Scarlett.  Ditto for the Behringer interface.

    I have a running thread in this forum as I have a somewhat similar problem.    There is some good advice in that thread from people who know far about this than I do.    I’m in the midst of troubleshooting some smaller issues in my 3 week old Dell laptop.    It should be easy to find; it’s my one and only thread.

    It has “88 mS” of silence in the thread title. 

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    7 hours ago, bvideo said:

    That Wdf01000.sys is a "driver framework", so it could be used by any non-class-compliant device on your computer. Since it is a "gaming" computer, there may be a device built in that uses a driver tuned to gaming. Another possibility is that your anti-malware software has provided some alternate or stacked drivers, e.g. for keyboard and mouse (mine does), though wdf01000.sys is unlikely from anti-malware software.

    So mainly have a look at the driver stack for keyboard and mouse. Control panel -> device manager -> Keyboards (or) Mice and other pointing devices (double click or right click) -> properties -> Driver -> Driver Details  and see if wdf01000.sys is there.

    I’eve taken a look thru Keyboards, Mice, Display Adaptors, Human Interface Devices, Network Adaptors.

    I don’t see where Wdf01000.sys is used.

    Reducing the Internal Display from 120.21 Hz to 60.21 Hz and turning off the Gaming audio and video captures seems to have reduced the LatencyMon parameters.  

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    53 minutes ago, bvideo said:

    That Wdf01000.sys is a "driver framework", so it could be used by any non-class-compliant device on your computer. Since it is a "gaming" computer, there may be a device built in that uses a driver tuned to gaming. Another possibility is that your anti-malware software has provided some alternate or stacked drivers, e.g. for keyboard and mouse (mine does), though wdf01000.sys is unlikely from anti-malware software.

    So mainly have a look at the driver stack for keyboard and mouse. Control panel -> device manager -> Keyboards (or) Mice and other pointing devices (double click or right click) -> properties -> Driver -> Driver Details  and see if wdf01000.sys is there.

    Thanks, I’ll give this a try!

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    2 hours ago, John Vere said:

    This thread has gotten too long so I missed this which is pretty important info. You need to deal with this. You can’t run any DAW when that is red. It may or may not be at the root of the problem but overall to use a computer for music it needs to run clean an green. 
    I believe you said this is a Dell laptop. If it is this could be issues in the BIOS as I have personal experience about 8 years ago with similar issues. 
    Dell wouldn’t deal with it. We sent it back and they said it wasn’t broken?   $1,500 no good for audio. Still have it and it’s fine for all else. Bought a $600 Acer that never had issues with Audio once bloat ware was removed. 

    Ugh!

    Looks like I have some work cut out for me to see if I can get this thing running “Clean and Green”.

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted · Edited by Chris-J
    typos

    On 3/6/2023 at 8:15 PM, John Vere said:

    I'm pretty sure the  CA 2A , both the VST and pro Channel module were only included with Sonar. But the PC 2A Leveler is identical in all respects other than it does not have side chaining.  This is why the OP can't find the CA 2A if they never used Sonar. 

     

    Ah-ha!

    I do have the PC2A Compressor in Pro Channel and it works quite well!     One of my favourites for electric guitars.

    • Like 1

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    2 hours ago, mettelus said:

    I might have missed this being mentioned already, but repeatable glitches like that are very common to plugins that have a DEMO mode (or a "free" variant of a paid plugin). Does anything in your master FX chain fall into that category? I agree this seems more a rogue plugin issue than a system issue. Another thing to be mindful of is plugins that have look-ahead associated with them and that there is enough buffer to accommodate that.

    Thanks for the tip.

    I checked, I don’t have any plugins in Demo Mode.   Plus I would think that Demo Mode would drop audio out for a full second or two?    Not 88 mS.

    I will try three other things. 

    First:

    I have Klanghelm’s “VUMT” meter plugin on my computer and their “VUMT Deluxe” meter plugin installed in the Master Bus.    I’ve uninstalled “VUMT” from my computer as I really don’t need it if I have “VUMT Deluxe”.  Plus I’ve deleted VUMT Deluxe from the Master Bus as I don’t need it to Export.

    Second:

    I have a plugin called Lowtility, but I’m only using it as a High Pass filter so I replaced with the EQ in Pro Channel.

    Third:

    I have deleted a plugin called Panipulate, which I only use to listen to the mix in Mono.

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    4 hours ago, John Vere said:

    I just thought of something that I didn’t see mentioned yet. Run Resplendence Latency Monitor and see what is going on. It is a laptop I do believe. They can be more problematic 

    https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

    Thanks John, I will try this out.

    You are correct, it is actually a Gaming Laptop made by Dell.     I have uninstalled all the Alienware software the laptop shipped with and have ensured that “Gaming Mode” is OFF.

    • Like 1

    Shout out for TDR Molot GE

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    On 3/4/2023 at 10:09 PM, AB7777 said:

    If you try the TDR Molot GE, please let me know what you think.  For $10, it is an amazing bargain.

    I have the Slick as well, and I agree with you!

     

     

    For $10? I’ll give it a try when I get out of my current troubleshooting mode, LOL!

    I think the Molot GE GUI is a lot clearer than the old freeware Molot, which is a bit too busy for its own good, IMHO.

    • Like 1

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

    As you might imagine, this is like waving a red flag at me. 😉

    I'll point out that every one of Cakewalk's stock plug-ins, including the ProChannel modules, is a "FREE PLUG-IN." Statistically, most of us try more freeware plug-ins than payware ones, so we're more likely to find issues with freeware ones. 

    Wider is a favorite of many Cakezoids. I like it for extreme widening effects, but usually prefer JST/Boz Sidewidener (once magware, now freeware) or Ozsoft Xpander for more subtle effects. Anything you find in the "Favorite Freeware" threads is vetted to some degree by Cakewalk users. Cakewalk itself is a testament to the quality level of today's freeware. It's become more stable, faster, and compatible under the freeware license than it was when it was payware.

    Things have changed in the past 10 years: so many larger companies have begun issuing freeware as a loss-leader promotion. MeldaProduction was one of the innovators, with their highly-regarded MFreeFX bundle. With the old picture of freeware being the product of solo hobbyists working in their spare time is no longer accurate. Wider is a loss-leader product of Polyverse, who have a line of decidedly non-free plug-ins. As a loss-leader, presumably intended to pique interest in the company's for-pay efforts, one would hope they have incentive to make sure the thing worked.

    Anyway, I prefer to say that it's a conflict with a plug-in. This avoids the dreaded finger-pointing/perception of defensiveness. And, bottom line, if there is a problem with a plug-in (especially with one as popular as Wider, @John Vere 😛), the Cakewalk developers should be informed that there is an issue. Same with the plug-in developers. Let 'em know?

    If a plug-in doesn't play nice with Cakewalk, neither Cakewalk nor the plug-in is "at fault," even though thousands of other plug-ins work just fine with Cakewalk and the plug-in in questions works just fine in other hosts (usually REAPER 😄). Compatibility is a 2-way street, and the fact is, both the host and the plug-in can be 100% compliant with the VST3 spec and still not play nice with each other. Fortunately, it's easy for developers to test with Cakewalk: all you need is a Windows system and an internet connection to get it.

    Why should Wider work for so many others, but not John? I have no idea. I've seen a tiny number of plug-in conflicts not with the host, but with another plug-in. Sometimes they don't like being in the same rack or even project with each other. I see that situation as being hopeless, because how do you get 3 different developers to sort out something like that?

    BTW, regarding payware vs. freeware, has anyone mentioned the possibility that there's an unregistered plug-in in this project? That's a common feature of plug-in demos: before the product is registered, it will issue silence or hiss at various intervals. The gap or noise usually lasts for at least a second, not as brief as 88mS, though.

            Thanks, lots of food for thought here.

    Several months ago I did have an obvious problem with a Freeware plugin called “EpicPlate”.     I very quickly deleted it from my computer.

    As for the question, do I have an unregistered plugin?  I don’t think so, but I will verify.   Mistakes can happen!

    Another test I will run later on today is Exporting another project with different plugins in the Master Bus.  The current project, which is displaying this issue, does not have a large quantity of Plugins in it’s Master Bus.

    Thanks,

    Chris

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

    Perhaps its just my skeptical nature, but I'm always suspicious when someone is that specific. 88ms? Really? You measured it? 88 for sure and not 90 or 82? Especially when they are apparently unaware of such basic steps like looking for troublesome plugins...

     

    To answer your question:

    Yes, I measured it.   Approx. 87-89 mS.  I’m not guessing or ball parking.

    It’s a very reasonable question though.

    As for not looking for troublesome plugins, I don’t claim to be an expert, that’s why I’m here.

    I just got a new computer and confess to spending way too much time trying to figure out what was wrong with the new computer, and not looking at DAW software as the culprit.    My old computer used an Intel i7-4700U, so freezing a few tracks and NOT using CPU intensive plugins was mandatory just to run a project

    I couldn’t see the forest for the trees.     I’ve learned a lot in this thread and I appreciate everyone’s assistance.

    • Like 2

    I have an intermittent problem: 88 mS of silence when mixing

    in Cakewalk by BandLab

    Posted

    Thanks for the assistance folks.

    I ran another experiment:

    I left all the tracks frozen, but deleted all the plugins from the busses.

    The problem disappeared.

    I would surmise the logical  conclusion would be there is a delinquent plugin in the Master Bus.

    Now I’ll have to narrow it down.   I’ve logged off the computer for the day, but I’ll see if I can narrow it down tomorrow.

    Thanks again for all the assistance!

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