75 workflow improvements to make Cakewalk more intuitive (+ appearance, implementation, etc.)

[Olaf]

14 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Wrong again. This is been done and dusted several times. All the pleasing characteristics of analog sound are either harmonic distortion or lack of high frequencies.

Don't bother, I'm not even gonna read it. You don't actually read what is being written, you fly over the points, so basically you repeat yourself over an over, with stuff that's been already answered, but somehow you missed it. I'm gonna return the favor and not read it, myself. Besides, the first phrases already show the more-sterile-theorizing over using your ears approach, even though even the theory is wrong, because it's oversimplified theory - that doesn't involve psychoacoustics, principles of physics, etc. There's not point to it, and I don't really care what Ethan said.

Besides, somebody who enjoys saying "you're wrong" so many times - while a decent guy actually tries to avoid saying it, I could have said it, and maybe more than that - clearly has an emotional agenda behind his "certainties", so I suggest solving that first, and then having certainties. But once you do, you'll probably find you don't need "certainties" and to dizzy yourself with talk, as much, and you'll probably become more open to understanding and (somewhat) objective assessment. Again, we're all subjective, but not everything is entirely subjective. And I see a avoidance mechanism here, so...

Edited January 19, 2021 by Olaf

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

Don't bother, I'm not even gonna read it. You don't actually read what is being written, you fly over the points, so basically you repeat yourself over an over, with stuff that's been already answered, but somehow you missed it. I'm gonna return the favor and not read it, myself. Besides, the first phrases already show the more-sterile-theorizing over using your ears approach, even though even the theory is wrong, because it's oversimplified theory - that doesn't involve psychoacoustics, principles of physics, etc. There's not point to it, and I don't really care what Ethan said.

Besides, somebody who enjoys saying "you're wrong" so many times - while a decent guy actually tries to avoid saying it, I could have said it, and maybe more than that - clearly has an emotional agenda behind his "certainties", so I suggest solving that first, and then having certainties. But once you do, you'll probably find you don't need "certainties" and to dizzy yourself with talk, as much, and you'll probably become more open to understanding and (somewhat) objective assessment. Again, we're all subjective, but not everything is entirely subjective. And I see a avoidance mechanism here, so...

Yet you bother responding to it, on top of going to personal attacks right before calling me out for allegedly doing so.

Once again, no matter how much you show videos of people using analog gear or some processing done in modern setups, it won't make digital sound harsh, because digital does not sound harsh. And if it did earlier, it was already fixed. All the stuff we still use in digital sound today has been determined since the 1930s.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 1/16/2021 at 8:08 PM, Teegarden said:

AMD? In the device manager, find "ATA / ATAPI IDE Controllers", select "AMD Sata controller" and disable it.

There's no way to disable that. The box is greyed out.

[Teegarden]

29 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

There's no way to disable that. The box is greyed out.

Hard to judge what's going on without seeing it. Usually in Device Manager you can right-click a device and select "disable device". Do you run everything with administrator rights?
Here's a link to programs that might help you: 6 Tools to Forcefully Enable Grayed Out Disabled Buttons

[Olaf]

Good description. Moral, even on a decent configuration, anything that resembles real life and not an aseptic configuration, where you don't even look at the screen and tread very lightly, leads to crashes, and, even with that, performance issues. Direct monitoring recording is basically not being able to record - other than maybe vocals, but not helpful for a good performance even then.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/333570523387557/permalink/3698301283581114/

Edited January 21, 2021 by Olaf

[Teegarden]

7 hours ago, Olaf said:

Good description. Moral, even on a decent configuration, anything that resembles real life and not an aseptic configurations leads to crashes, and, even with that, performance issues. Direct monitoring recording is basically not being able to record - other than maybe vocals, but not helpful for a good performance even then.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/333570523387557/permalink/3698301283581114/

That Facebook post is a very nice example of how complicated and demanding DAWs are and how problems in many cases are related to hardware and configuration and not necessarily to the DAW itself (not saying that DAWs are bug free..)!  

[Olaf]

5 hours ago, Teegarden said:

That Facebook post is a very nice example of how complicated and demanding DAWs are and how problems in many cases are related to hardware and configuration and not necessarily to the DAW itself (not saying that DAWs are bug free..)!  

Yeah, I know, but wouldn't at least acknowledging the problems - and the fundamental causes - be a required step towards solving them?

Edited January 21, 2021 by Olaf

[Teegarden]

Yes, the problem with problems is that the cause often is not clear... 

[Olaf]

22 hours ago, Teegarden said:

Yes, the problem with problems is that the cause often is not clear... 

Sure, but giving up the "it's all plugins' fault, all the time" attitude would be a good place to start.

Last night I had a crash after trying to close several windows in short sequence, and a short hang up. At least it wasn't five crashes, and I haven't noticed my Tape reset randomly a few times a night either, recently. I'll give a thumbs up on that - getting conditioned to low expectations ?.

Sphere won't start after the update. It worked before, didn't touch it in the meantime. And my WA Prod plugins won't visualize anything - I mean not even the knobs moving or the number values changing, let alone the waveforms. They work, audio wise, I can hear the changes, but not visually. Close them, open then up again, I get the updated values and new knob positions - which I adjusted blindly, but no movement in real time.

A million and first confirmation that it's connected somehow to the graphics/visualization/multimedia core in CW, or to the integration with that part of Windows. I'd bet on CW for some strong reasons.

My latency buffer if 512 samples - 10 ms one trip latency - I can mix fine, no hangups, no stutter, plenty of CPU headroom (but no engine headroom, strangely, which overshoots), until I record - and there's half a second of latency, on that setting - or any other. I'm sure I can reinstall and it will go away - but I'm tired of reinstalling and migrating my settings all the time - pretty much after any update. In a year and 4 months I must have reinstalled around 10 times. The same orphaned automations which you still can't delete, 16 months later. And lots of workflow "longcuts" and strange behaviors.

EDIT: The WA Prod visualizations worked last night on a different project, until adding the plugin that topped the CPU load, when they stopped. It seems they stop responding visually when the CPU is full - the same conflict I was talking about.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Olaf

[Teegarden]

Agreed, from what I can see the CbB team does take possible bugs in the DAW itself serious. They are a small team with limited resources, so many things will be on the waiting list, probably with lower priority. I guess that's the downside of a free DAW, but I can live with that. I still think that it outperforms many paid DAWs and they've squeezed an impressive amount of bugs over the last two years.

Sorry to hear about the many reinstalls (just CbB or the whole Windows operating system?), which is certainly not what most users need to do. There must be something specific to your configuration that makes it worse compared to most other PCs.

What I do know, DAW independent, is that Windows becomes buggy over time. After a few years a PC really from a complete reinstall if you frequently use more complicated software. The majority of users will not notice these problems, but with complex audio-visual software or other professional software I've witnessed this regularly. Also, another piece of software on your machine might mess with windows settings, negatively influencing a DAW without you being aware of it.

My system is not even four years old and I'm already looking forward to later this year when I hope to be able to afford a new one with an AMD 5900X or 5950X. My current PC is showing degradation of the EVO 960 PCIe SSD and other problems are starting to show up (and my first gen Threadripper is not yet optimised for audio latency). Software and probably also hardware issues are slowly getting worse. I use the machine heavily, so its no surprise. All electronic components are prone to damage due to changing currents and temperatures. Usually minor, but over time they might lead to problems and sensitive software will suffer faster from it than a simple text writer or game. I've witnessed this kind of issues from the moment I've started building computers for myself and others 30 years ago.

Having said that, CbB graphics handling can certainly be improved. The team seems aware of that. In the last updates there were already some changes of memory management, also relating to the graphics buffers from what I understood. Let's hope they continue improving on that path. A well installed solid new GPU might provide some benefit.

If you've got an NVidia card you can do the following:

1. NVCleanstall for a clean driver install without extras and to make sure there's nothing from NVidia installaions left:
    
2. Nvidia Control Panel | Manage 3D settings, set "Power Management Mode" to "Prefer Maximum Performance"
3. uninstall NVidia Experience
4. disable NVidia telemetry: 

• NvTmMon -- Nvidia Telemetry Monitor -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmMon.exe, 
• NvTmRep -- Nvidia crash and Telemetry Reporter -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe
• NvTmRepOnLogon -- Nvidia Profile Updater -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe --logon)

Did you also check the difference between VST2 and VST3 of the problem plugins? Steinberg didn't do a great job regarding compatibility when defining these standards...

 

[Olaf]

On 1/22/2021 at 9:22 PM, Teegarden said:

Agreed, from what I can see the CbB team does take possible bugs in the DAW itself serious. They are a small team with limited resources, so many things will be on the waiting list, probably with lower priority. I guess that's the downside of a free DAW, but I can live with that. I still think that it outperforms many paid DAWs and they've squeezed an impressive amount of bugs over the last two years.

Sorry to hear about the many reinstalls (just CbB or the whole Windows operating system?), which is certainly not what most users need to do. There must be something specific to your configuration that makes it worse compared to most other PCs.

What I do know, DAW independent, is that Windows becomes buggy over time. After a few years a PC really from a complete reinstall if you frequently use more complicated software. The majority of users will not notice these problems, but with complex audio-visual software or other professional software I've witnessed this regularly. Also, another piece of software on your machine might mess with windows settings, negatively influencing a DAW without you being aware of it.

My system is not even four years old and I'm already looking forward to later this year when I hope to be able to afford a new one with an AMD 5900X or 5950X. My current PC is showing degradation of the EVO 960 PCIe SSD and other problems are starting to show up (and my first gen Threadripper is not yet optimised for audio latency). Software and probably also hardware issues are slowly getting worse. I use the machine heavily, so its no surprise. All electronic components are prone to damage due to changing currents and temperatures. Usually minor, but over time they might lead to problems and sensitive software will suffer faster from it than a simple text writer or game. I've witnessed this kind of issues from the moment I've started building computers for myself and others 30 years ago.

Having said that, CbB graphics handling can certainly be improved. The team seems aware of that. In the last updates there were already some changes of memory management, also relating to the graphics buffers from what I understood. Let's hope they continue improving on that path. A well installed solid new GPU might provide some benefit.

If you've got an NVidia card you can do the following:

1. NVCleanstall for a clean driver install without extras and to make sure there's nothing from NVidia installaions left:
    
2. Nvidia Control Panel | Manage 3D settings, set "Power Management Mode" to "Prefer Maximum Performance"
3. uninstall NVidia Experience
4. disable NVidia telemetry: 

• NvTmMon -- Nvidia Telemetry Monitor -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmMon.exe, 
• NvTmRep -- Nvidia crash and Telemetry Reporter -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe
• NvTmRepOnLogon -- Nvidia Profile Updater -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe --logon)

Did you also check the difference between VST2 and VST3 of the problem plugins? Steinberg didn't do a great job regarding compatibility when defining these standards...

 

I know, and you're right, problem is with all the generalized plugin blaming they don't seem to be aware of the problem. I've told them all this more than a year ago.

I've reinstalled CW many times, pretty much with every update, although I sometimes try to push it as much as I can - to avoid migration and stuff. It seems every update makes something not work, some visualization, some settings forgotten - for instance, now, the console view always opens half-way, instead of full screen, as i have it set. Windows I've reinstalled twice, I believe, when I switched to 10. And I need to redo it again, once I move in my new drive.

I've bought an m.2 drive, looking for an adapter to PCie, now, and I'm gonna install it, since my storage solid state is starting to drop. Next month, I'm gonna buy an AM4 motherboard, maybe the memory modules, too, for the new Ryzen 5800X that I'm planning to buy in the near future. Your 5900 will probably be better, but I think the difference is too great in price, right now. Compared to my FX 8 core, I expect a doubling of speed from the CPU alone, from some reported benchmarks, so, adding the new drive speed, new RAM and new motherboard, the increase should be even greater, so that should take care of that.

But how do you explain the fact that you've got incredible dropouts and stutter when the CPU shows a ton of headroom in the CW performance meter, even on the FX, and - check this out - only disabled the Ignite module on my Animate plugin - which is an exciter - and everything goes away? Or, even better, enable it back on, but when you switch the master from stereo to mono, it plays like a charm. It's optimizations, in my view, connected to the engine - CW, communicating with Win, I don't know, that's where my ability to tell stops. But if you don't do that, there's no point in adding to new features and new gadgets - sure, they're useful, but first things first.

You're right, I do have an nVidia. I haven't installed the Experience, I've disabled the telemetry, and I have unchecked the startup of the whole graphic application. Your link might be very useful, I'll check it out, too.

Check out how Reason reacts to a crashed plugins. Very elegant. What does CW do? Usually just crashes. Some Area 51 stuff: Colour Copy starts in CW, but not in Reason. Townsend Sphere starts in Reason, but not in CW. Now, I imagine that's something to do with the permissions - not blaming CW for everything - my antivirus at some point blocked all my exes, but the rest still stands.

When do you wanna buy the new CPU?

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

4 hours ago, Olaf said:

Check out how Reason reacts to a crashed plugins. Very elegant. What does CW do? Usually just crashes. Some Area 51 stuff: Colour Copy starts in CW, but not in Reason. Townsend Sphere starts in Reason, but not in CW. Now, I imagine that's something to do with the permissions - not blaming CW for everything - my antivirus at some point blocked all my exes, but the rest still stands.

Reason has sand boxing by design, as each component of the rack is a separate virtual module.

[Teegarden]

3 hours ago, Olaf said:

But how do you explain the fact that you've got incredible dropouts and stutter when the CPU shows a ton of headroom in the CW performance meter, even on the FX, and - check this out - only disabled the Ignite module on my Animate plugin - which is an exciter - and everything goes away? Or, even better, enable it back on, but when you switch the master from stereo to mono, it plays like a charm. It's optimizations, in my view, connected to the engine - CW, communicating with Win, I don't know, that's where my ability to tell stops. But if you don't do that, there's no point in adding to new features and new gadgets - sure, they're useful, but first things first.

That's what I wondered about from the start, why on earth do I have problems when my CPU performance is at 15-20%? After some time I started to understand that it is more the engine load and late buffers that indicate if there's a problem. Even a slightly older CPU should still be up to recording an average project without too many problems. My impression (after reading tons of topics) in our case is that it has to do with the impaired internal latency of the former generations AMD CPUs, unfortunately. I guess @Jim Roseberry can say more about this.
I've managed to improve performance by tweaking my Threadripper system to the max, but at the cost of way too many unproductive hours and now my hardware is starting to wear out. So now, when I can finally record something decent, I might need to replace things again?. 

No clue how much attention under the hood optimisation has compared to new features. As good as each new release I see improvements that also relate to latency and overall speed. It needs to be a fair balance to keep the majority happy. My impression is that we are in the minority group (most users seem to be reasonably satisfied, Intel systems...?), so probably not first in line to be served. And if it really is the AMD internal latency problem the only real solution is getting the latest hardware.

3 hours ago, Olaf said:

Check out how Reason reacts to a crashed plugins. Very elegant. What does CW do? Usually just crashes. Some Area 51 stuff: Colour Copy starts in CW, but not in Reason. Townsend Sphere starts in Reason, but not in CW. Now, I imagine that's something to do with the permissions - not blaming CW for everything - my antivirus at some point blocked all my exes, but the rest still stands.

There's a recent topic that I can't find back where they were referring to that (I guess it was a comparison with Reaper that doesn't crash when a plugin fails) and gave a hyperlink to a webpage explaining that separate plugin sandboxing like in other DAWs is not a solution in the end. 
I do need to add that I don't really suffer much from instability. My main problem was latency related at lower buffer settings.

Did I mention that I have 32GB RAM so I switched of my paging file? That might also have helped. And since two weeks I've slightly overclocked my system (many advice not to do so, but I like to think that I know what I'm doing, so...) . Temperatures have not really gone up (got a good cooling), but everything is much more responsive. No crashes so far. With ryzen-dram-calculator you can find stable better settings for you RAM. It gives significant improvements. Next to that (at least for my Threadripper), the CPU is also flexible with slight overclocking (I use Ryzen Master to do so). If you consider such thing, read carefully the overclock forums first!
 

3 hours ago, Olaf said:

When do you wanna buy the new CPU?

I hope to have the budget in a couple of months... Anyway, there's a shortages of the top Ryzen CPUs, so they are overprized at the moment. I think that in about 4 months prizes and availability will be better. Thinking about the Ryzen 5900X or 5950X + 128 GB 3600 RAM.
Also there are new, faster PCIe 4.0 SSDs coming out with 2 to 4 TB. I would like to see how they compare  in tests the coming months.
I'm especially looking at the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 4TB SSD (thinking about getting 2 of those).
GPU: one just under the top (because of the outrages cost for the fastest). Still waiting for info on whether a Radeon or NVidia  is better compatible with a DAW and which one plays better with Ryzen. There have been some significant changes and improvements on both sides...

I can survive till then. CbB works right now and I can do all the other things I need to do too. My real time backups ensure no risks in case of crashes.

[Jim Roseberry]

15 hours ago, Teegarden said:

My impression (after reading tons of topics) in our case is that it has to do with the impaired internal latency of the former generations AMD CPUs, unfortunately. I guess @Jim Roseberry can say more about this.
I've managed to improve performance by tweaking my Threadripper system to the max, but at the cost of way too many unproductive hours and now my hardware is starting to wear out. So now, when I can finally record something decent, I might need to replace things again?. 

CPU speed is certainly an important factor... but there are numerous facets that affect performance.

Just because you see "CPU headroom", that doesn't mean the machine is going to perform flawlessly (for DAW purposes).

 

Threadripper's multi-threaded performance is off-the-chain good, but it's ultra low-latency performance is poor (even the 3970x).

The new 5950x (Vermeer) is the first series of AMD CPUs where that's finally been resolved.

The 5950x can run loads at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size... that the 3970x just can't sustain (glitch-free).

That said, the new 10th Gen i9-10900k can run Helix Native (with a substantial patch using two 2048-sample Cab IRs) completely glitch-free at 96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size.  The first CPU to be able to effectively do this (no glitches).

 

Even with a 10900k or 5950x, if the machine's DPC Latency is high... you'll experience audio glitches/drop-outs.

Lets say you want to run Helix Native at 44.1k using a 64-sample ASIO buffer size.

That means the machine has 1.5ms to process the next audio buffer and get it in cue for playback.  

Anything that interrupts this process will cause an audio glitch/dropout.  (ie: Poorly written drivers can monopolize the CPU.)

 

Processes constantly running in the background (backup/sync, A/V, etc) can negatively affect performance.

 

There's performance and power throttling:

Say you have a typical song structure... where the song starts with maybe 8-16 tracks of drums, guitar, bass, keys, and lead vocal/melody.

When the song reaches the bridge, let's say it breaks down to just the kick and a single bass part.

At this point, CPU use (demand) is extremely low... so the system decides to throttle CPU clock-speed down to 1/4 speed... as well as parking several cores.

When the stripped-down bridge ends, here comes the massive chorus-out-vamp.  Huge stacks of backing vocals, synths, etc.

That massive CPU load now falls on the CPU running at 1/4 clock-speed... with several cores that have been parked.

Glitches at best... or a complete transport dropout.

 

The harder you're pushing the machine (heavier loads, lower latency), the more important all the details.

A general-purpose user wouldn't notice a few millisecond hiccup in data-flow.

For someone wanting to run at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size, those few extra milliseconds can result in glitches/dropouts.

 

 

[Jim Roseberry]

Getting the new Vermeer AMD CPUs (like the 5950x) is currently almost like winning the lottery.

When in-stock, they're gone within a few minutes.

 

FWIW, I still feel the 10900k is a great balance of cost/performance.

• 10 cores
• 20 processing threads
• All ten cores can be locked at 5.3GHz

That's a lot of CPU for $500.

 

 

[Teegarden]

Thanks for the clear answer!

1 hour ago, Jim Roseberry said:

That massive CPU load now falls on the CPU running at 1/4 clock-speed... with several cores that have been parked.

I guess that's not the case when your PC power profile is set to maximum performance all the time (and good cooling to avoid throtling)?

And what is the influence of the soundcard regarding latency?
I've got a ten year old RME PCIe AIO card that gives effective latency of 2.7 ms with 256 buffer, 24bit, 96kHz, 64 bit double precision buffer (ASIO reported latencies:  input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms). That seem relatively good figures to me (working without glitches when all unnecessary background processes are eliminated)? 

And the fastest PCIe 4.0 SSD's? Don't they also improve latency? The 10900k has only PCIe 3.0...

I agree regarding the cost/performance of the 10900k, but I'm quite interested in the new AMD, will just wait till its available at reasonable price?

[Jim Roseberry]

13 minutes ago, Teegarden said:

Thanks for the clear answer!

I guess that's not the case when your PC power profile is set to maximum performance all the time (and good cooling to avoid throtling)?

And what is the influence of the soundcard regarding latency?
I've got a ten year old RME PCIe AIO card that gives effective latency of 2.7 ms with 256 buffer, 24bit, 96kHz, 64 bit double precision buffer (ASIO reported latencies:  input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms). That seem relatively good figures to me (working without glitches when all unnecessary background processes are eliminated)? 

And the fastest PCIe 4.0 SSD's? Don't they also improve latency? The 10900k has only PCIe 3.0...

I agree regarding the cost/performance of the 10900k, but I'm quite interested in the new AMD, will just wait till its available at reasonable price?

Power profile is certainly part of the equation... but not all of it.   

CPU cooler has to be able to keep up (or course).

 

Your audio interface determines the latency your DAW can achieve.

The CPU has to be able to sustain the load (glitch-free)... but has no direct affect on the actual latency figure.

 

6.8ms total round-trip latency isn't bad.

If you want lowest possible round-trip latency, Presonus Quantum can achieve sub 1ms (96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size).

Right now, only the 10900k can sustain any type of load at those settings... and that's do to the super high clock-speed (5.3GHz).

 

PCIe 4.0 SSDs have zero impact on audio latency.

PCIe 3.0 SSDs sustain 3500MB/Sec.

PCIe 4.0 SSD sustain about 4000-5000MB/Sec.

 

You may be surprised to hear that the 5950x is currently performing slightly better with the B550 vs. X570 chipset.

X570 is also active-cooled... which means small (annoying) high-RPM fan.  Noisy!

 

5950x is an $800 CPU.  

If you're waiting for significant discount, it's going to be an extended wait.  ?

 

 

 

[Teegarden]

You really make me hesitate...?

[Olaf]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, Teegarden said:

've managed to improve performance by tweaking my Threadripper system to the max, but at the cost of way too many unproductive hours and now my hardware is starting to wear out. So now, when I can finally record something decent, I might need to replace things again?. 

Yeap, been there, done that, repeatedly.

On 1/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, Teegarden said:

My impression is that we are in the minority group (most users seem to be reasonably satisfied, Intel systems...?)

I think if you add up all the report topics in the feedback or product related topics, and those on social media groups, it's gonna come up that we're not that much of a minority, after all. It also depends on how everyone uses it - how much it pushes it, customizes it, how many plugins, etc.

On 1/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, Teegarden said:

explaining that separate plugin sandboxing like in other DAWs is not a solution in the end

It seems to work, though. It certainly stops the crashing problems, which is essential, especially if they happen often, and an extra 3 ms of latency induced in a high plugin count project doesn't seem to be a make or break factor, particularly since we're all bound to transition to newer platforms as hardware improves.

I think if that's what sandboxing costs, latency wise, as per the article you posted about Ardour, that will be a more than doable tradeoff. In my experience you can work with up to maybe 15 ms roundtrip, when recording - when mixing even more. I think where you lose the most, latency wise, is in the engine, and in the hardware, like you said.

On the other hand, I don't know how sandboxing can be optimized even further, or if there are better alternatives, but I really do think something must be done to stop the crashes. Even if you don't lose stuff, it's incredibly off putting. If you add the various settings that you need to redo on every project load, because CW doesn't save them - or some plugins, like with certain low range values in the compressor release times of CLA Mixhub, for instance - which is great, otherwise - it's enough to make you want to quit for the night. If it happens two-three times, you're really out of it. And then you have to record, and you're already pissed off.

On 1/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, Teegarden said:

Did I mention that I have 32GB RAM so I switched of my paging file?

I still have mine - 16 GB. I've made it smaller - 1 GB, but haven't tried disabling it completely, to compare. What I've read mostly recommended leaving it on, so I left it on.

I haven't tried overclocking because I don't know how to mess with the voltages, and I didn't put in the time to read enough about it until now. I didn't imagine it you make that much of a difference to actually delve in it. How much of a difference, percentage wise, would you say you've got?

On 1/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, Teegarden said:

Anyway, there's a shortages of the top Ryzen CPUs, so they are overprized at the moment. I think that in about 4 months prizes and availability will be better. Thinking about the Ryzen 5900X or 5950X + 128 GB 3600 RAM.

You've got big plans. That sounds good. But do you think you'll need all that RAM? Personally, for me, even with other stuff open, my most loaded project doesn't seem to push the RAM beyond 50-60%, with 16 GB, so I don't worry about that, for the moment.

I think you're right about the availability, and the prices seem to be catching up to Intel, pound per pound, more than I'd like to - there's still a notable difference, but not as much as there used to be. On the other hand I don't want to switch to an all Intel platform not only because of the performance/cost ratio, which is still, in my opinion, noticeably favorable to AMD, but because I know AMD better than Intel, and I don't want to spend days understanding Intel, to know what to get - especially since the name codes seem to have to connection with the number of cores, generations, etc. - or I can't easily decode them, anyway.

I won't hurry to get the new CPU for a few months. I've gotten the new NVME SSD this month - huge transfer rate difference vs a 2.5 SSD, but since I can't boot off it, I can't compare it in terms of system speed. I'll get the motherboard next month, the RAM the month after, and see where the CPU prices are in about April, it's probably the best thing to do.

[Olaf]

On 1/26/2021 at 4:39 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

At this point, CPU use (demand) is extremely low... so the system decides to throttle CPU clock-speed down to 1/4 speed... as well as parking several cores.

When the stripped-down bridge ends, here comes the massive chorus-out-vamp.  Huge stacks of backing vocals, synths, etc.

That massive CPU load now falls on the CPU running at 1/4 clock-speed... with several cores that have been parked.

Hey, @Jim Roseberry, thanks for your extended answer.

There are some utilities, and registry changes you can make to permanently unpark all cores - it's one of the first things I do on a fresh Win install. Some links you can try.

https://itechviral.com/enable-or-disable-cpu-core-parking-in-windows-10/

https://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/CPU-Tweak/CPU-Unpark.shtml

https://www.craigthetechteacher.com/how-to-disable-cpu-core-parking-in-windows-10-2020/

There's also disabling some of the C states or motherboard power saving utilities in BIOS, that might help.

On 1/26/2021 at 4:39 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

The new 5950x (Vermeer) is the first series of AMD CPUs where that's finally been resolved.

I imagine that's the case for the entire 5xxx series, including the 58xx, right?

On 1/26/2021 at 6:38 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

You may be surprised to hear that the 5950x is currently performing slightly better with the B550 vs. X570 chipset.

X570 is also active-cooled... which means small (annoying) high-RPM fan.  Noisy!

Are you referring to the overall performance, or only the noise? I was looking at 570 motherboards for a new 5800X.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Olaf