Using Sonar FX While Recording?

[Dibubba]

Hi Crew - 

Is there a way, in the current version, to apply FX (e.g. VST's within a Channel's FX Section) *while recording* ?  In previous versions, there wasn't... which is why I have so much outboard hardware! 🤪

I'm wondering if Sonar caught up, and I missed it.

Thanks! 👍

[Chaps]

All the FX will affect what you hear but are not recorded with the audio, as far as I know . If you want the FX to be added permanently to the recorded audio you can select the track/clip and in the top menu click Process>Apply Effect>Audio Effects. This will write the FX to the selected audio and, if you want, remove the FX from the FX bin. Or you can bounce the track to a new track and then you can delete or archive the original audio. Not writing the FX to a track while recording is. IMO, a much more flexible option than recording the FX as you record.

[Amberwolf]

If you can tolerate the latency, you can use input monitoring on the track to pass all input of that track while recording thru the fx bin.   But it still records it clean onto the track. 

[57Gregy]

I think that by using a AZux Tracks, you can direct the output of the track that's being recorded to another track and then have one track with the effect in the bin and the other track with the effected audio.
A plus is that by deleting the FX in the original track, you now have a clean and dirty recording.
Aux Tracks have been around for a while, so not new to Cakewalk Sonar.

Edited Tuesday at 01:40 AM by 57Gregy
clarification

[57Gregy]

If you've already read the above, that should be 'Aux Tracks' and not 'Patch Points"
And it may not record on both tracks?

To record an audio track that contains effects
1. Insert the desired time-based plug-in effect(s) in the effect bin on the audio track.
2. Click the audio track’s Output control and select New Aux Track on the pop-up menu.
3. Arm the Aux track for recording.
For details, see “Arming tracks for recording” on page 355.
4. Begin recording.
For details, see “To Record Audio” on page 363.
copied from page 994 of the Reference Guide.

[Starship Krupa]

2 hours ago, Dibubba said:

Hi Crew - 

Is there a way, in the current version, to apply FX (e.g. VST's within a Channel's FX Section) *while recording* ?  In previous versions, there wasn't... which is why I have so much outboard hardware! 🤪

I'm wondering if Sonar caught up, and I missed it.

Thanks! 👍

Curious, why do you want to print FX while recording? You can monitor them while recording, then bounce the recorded track and the FX will be baked in just as if you had printed them while recording.

[Bass Guitar]

12 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Curious, why do you want to print FX while recording? You can monitor them while recording, then bounce the recorded track and the FX will be baked in just as if you had printed them while recording.

Exactly. Im unaware of any Daw that can print effects while tracking without setting up some complex routing. 
That’s because very few people want this. You want the option of adding effects to taste during the mixing process  not the tracking. 

So for those that do desire printing effects they make audio interfaces that have built in DSP. 

[Xoo]

18 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

Im unaware of any Daw that can print effects while tracking without setting up some complex routing. 

Cubase for one (I think they call it Input Bus).  I think it's pretty standard.  Now as to why you'd want it...I'm with you on that!

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, Xoo said:

Now as to why you'd want it...I'm with you on that!

I'm interested to hear the OP's reply. The only effect that I can think of wanting to print would be compression, and that would only be when using a recording medium with much less range than 44.1KHz allows me.

[Xoo]

Unless the compressor is before the A/D converter, no difference from applying it after the event.  Recording with reverb/delay for vocals or through an amp sim for guitar makes sense, but that's still recording dry.

[azslow3]

Aux Tracks was introduced exactly for that purpose (a possibility to use them as buses, to visually interleave  "buses" with tracks, was a side effect...). 

Many synths and effects produce significantly different result every time you play the track. During performing, people "adopt" to currently produced sound. F.e. all effects with slow continuous (in world time) modulation.

There are DAWs in which there is a special "FX bin" which should be applied before writing track data to the disk (useful for audio and MIDI).

 

[Starship Krupa]

22 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

Many synths and effects produce significantly different result every time you play the track.

Yes. Synths and FX with stochastic elements as well as others.

[mettelus]

I am curious with the OP as well. As mentioned above Aux Tracks/Patch Points were specifically introduced for this purposes, but signals are traditionally recorded dry so that they can be adjusted dynamically in post-production. However, there are certain features that are more static in nature, and those are embedded in some interfaces. PreSonus interfaces (via the Universal Control) include their FAT channel (HPF, gate/expander, compressor, EQ, limiter, and reverb), which are more universal and sometimes desired for baking into the recorded track (HPF is often used on anything not bass or kick). The reason why dry is the default is that it opens options with composition/post-production... even with things like recording guitar from hardware it is very common to also record the dry DI output so that can be re-amped or processed separately as things flesh themselves out. Also, some FX do not take kindly at all to baked-in time-based effects (delays, reverbs, etc.) so if you baked those in you could easily buy yourself into re-tracking those parts... FX (and things like Melodyne) do not see those tails as delays/chorus/reverbs, but as signal, so they will blindly process those as well (and rarely desired).

[Bass Guitar]

I personally not against printing to track if that is exactly what I want. As example my guitar sound or my bass.  

I am a big believer in only recording great sounds. And that might involve a certain signal chain. But it most certainly will be hardware and not some dumb plug in. Those are best suited to adding later. 

But we don’t know what the OP was trying to do so it might be something else. 
 

 

[Alan Tubbs]

The Neumann mt48 interface has the ability to record dry and wet tracks at once, using the onboard effects.  You end up with both tracks.

i don’t know of any other interface that is set up like this.

[azslow3]

7 hours ago, Alan Tubbs said:

The Neumann mt48 interface has the ability to record dry and wet tracks at once, using the onboard effects.  You end up with both tracks.

For that money, they had to do something "special" 😏

Merging knows how to do that type of equipment, but "USB part" is hacked in by someone else.  That is the first (and the only) interface from Neumann, also I don't know if Sennheiser ever had a company with experience in normal USB interfaces.

What I think is "special" in the class of "notebook capable" audio interfaces with small number of IO is... fan... reviews mention it is not really silent... 🤔 

Also build-in effects are not  stochastic, no reason to record wet.

7 hours ago, Alan Tubbs said:

i don’t know of any other interface that is set up like this.

I think many DMs and "DM like" audio interfaces can. DMs effects can be stochastic, so that can make sense. Recording digital EQ and Compressor (f.e. in RME) has questionable value.

 

[Bass Guitar]

Interfaces that include DSP all can record wet. And many that have software mixers can send one input to more than one Daw track. Even if they don’t it’s pretty easy to split you signal into two different cables going in. 
My Zoom L8 as example can record directly from any of the 8 inputs and can also record the Wet signal from the master output. 
But that’s hardware.
 

The OP is asking about ITB recording probably related to using a Guitar sim. As said it is possible using AUX tracks. 
 

Another Possibly is arming a second audio track and selecting your audio interfaces Loopback as the input to the track. How well that works will depend on your interfaces Loopback routing options. 

[Alan Tubbs]

For that amount of money it is special.  It is the purist recording chain I’ve used, including the pres.  You want to record a saturated guitar,  it will capture that as well as capturing a sine wave as cleanly as can be.

as for usb, it works.  End stop.  And while the fan starts loud, after a second it disappears.  I’ve never heard it otherwise, even when recording in the same room in the summer Texas heat with the AC off (temporarily).

when mixing, I can move the interface to the sweetest  spot in the room onto a small mobile tabletop and work from there.  No reflections from excess table or giant screens behind the speakers radiating sound back.  I use the onboard screen to do all the work except for play, stop and record.   The screen is quick and intuitive and very fun  I don’t use any other effects now except reverb etc.  The onboard eq and comp are classy and more than enough to get the job done (tho I’m looking a fab filter).  If the sound  needs some saturation, I mostly use analog hardware.  And there is no delay if you use only the onboard effects, or no more than if you use a digital mixer.

fyi I don’t record the affected audio and the dry at once.   Seems silly except for special effect things, NY compression etc., done old school.

It is a lot of money for a 4 x 4 interface, but i learned to put my money in recording hardware itself, not instruments, since I can’t play as well as those I usually record.