[Free Synth] Crypt 2 by Vitling

[Esteban Villanova]

Sound is excellent: https://www.vitling.xyz/crypt/

[Syphus]

Would be nice if you could save presets that you make - can't figure out if it has that function . . . .

 

 

Syphus

[Amberwolf]

Seems pretty useless to have something you can alter settings in but not save presets for, so I'd guess there must be a way.  If not, you might want to ask them why such a basic function would be left out.

 

 

But they might be like BabyAudio, where they don't think users should be allowed to have fine control over their plugins, and don't let you change most parameters, it's all buried "under the hood" so that some potentially really useful plugins are just left as useless garbage for anyone that wants that control and isn't just a "preset pusher".    

[Syphus]

15 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

Seems pretty useless to have something you can alter settings in but not save presets for, so I'd guess there must be a way.  If not, you might want to ask them why such a basic function would be left out.

 

 

But they might be like BabyAudio, where they don't think users should be allowed to have fine control over their plugins, and don't let you change most parameters, it's all buried "under the hood" so that some potentially really useful plugins are just left as useless garbage for anyone that wants that control and isn't just a "preset pusher".    

I Emailed developer and asked about the preset saving . . .   No saving of presets.   He suggested saving the plugin with the project.   I thought that in worst case, I could snip the the image and use that as a way to preserve settings - who knows maybe it will change after enough people ask about it.

 

Syphus

Edited October 27 by Syphus

[Esteban Villanova]

What a major f*ck up... I emailed the dev too.

[Amberwolf]

Guess that's why it's free, doesn't have the most basic of functions. 

Or conversely, it doesn't save presets because it's a free version of something else?  (or is going to be?  I don't know this developer or their products)

[Esteban Villanova]

Had some back and forth with the dev. He got very offended because I said lack of presets makes it useless. I apologized and explained why they matter and he seemed open to the idea afterwards. He doesn't seem to be very experienced in production in general.

[Amberwolf]

11 minutes ago, Esteban Villanova said:

He got very offended because I said lack of presets makes it useless.

 

Something I used to call "programmer syndrome" but is better called "engineer syndrome":  almost always, the developer of a product (physical or digital) only ever sees it from the inside, and they don't actually look at the things in the way they are used by their intended userbase.  When that userbase responds by telling them how it ought to work to do the required job, the developer typically refuses to change it and sometimes explodes at the user, completely missing the whole point of the product, which is to be used by the user, and thus must do things the way the *user* wants them done, not the way the dev thinks they should be done.   

Often the problem is only a UI issue--the under-the-hood stuff works fine, but is not user-accessible in a useful way, or in a user-friendly or workflow-friendly way.  These issues usually get the hardest pushback from the dev, which is the most ridiculous part of it, since the dev should be making the User Interface for the user, not for themselves...but they make it the way the program internally works, not the way the user needs to access those features.   

I have almost never been able to get this across to devs.   The Bakers here have been the most responsive of all of the devs I've ever worked with, but even they have this syndrome now and then, prioritizing program design and operation over user interface and user-experience like any other dev.    

 

Sometimes it is because a dev thinks they know how a feature should be used...but it doesn't matter what they think--what matters is what the *user* wants to do with the program and they way they need to do that, *especially* with art creation, as an artist is not going to do things in some programmatical way, in most cases.   Each one has a way that works for their art, and the program must be adapted or adaptable to that, which is one reason presets and other UI customizability is so very important.  There are many such improvements in customizability in Sonar / etc., though from the posts I see around here some of them could stand some improvement in user-awareness-functionality, and in control accessibility / state-visibility.   

 

It's not easy to make a UI at all, much less one that does all the things a complex program (like Sonar) can, and it's impossible to make a single UI that does everything every user needs it to in the way the user needs it to...so complete customizability is essential for such complex programs.    Customizability is even harder to create flawlessly than a fixed UI...so anyone attempting to do it at all gets my congratulations and eternal thanks, even while I goad them on to continuous further improvements.    

 

But when a program (or device) foists a UI on user, especially an artist, it is at best unhelpful, and usually actively prevents a user from doing the things they want to do.

 

 

As much as I dislike most of the current usages of AI, I can't wait until AI is advanced enough to alter existing programs for me tell it to create the UI I need, as I need it.  Or even just to create a UI "over the top" of the program, so that when I need to do something, it lets me tell it what controls I need, and what information I need displayed, and then I tell it what to do with those and it makes me the UI I need to see for the stuff I am doing at that time, and refine it as I go. 

 

 

[Esteban Villanova]

4 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

 

Something I used to call "programmer syndrome" but is better called "engineer syndrome":  almost always, the developer of a product (physical or digital) only ever sees it from the inside, and they don't actually look at the things in the way they are used by their intended userbase.  When that userbase responds by telling them how it ought to work to do the required job, the developer typically refuses to change it and sometimes explodes at the user, completely missing the whole point of the product, which is to be used by the user, and thus must do things the way the *user* wants them done, not the way the dev thinks they should be done.   

Often the problem is only a UI issue--the under-the-hood stuff works fine, but is not user-accessible in a useful way, or in a user-friendly or workflow-friendly way.  These issues usually get the hardest pushback from the dev, which is the most ridiculous part of it, since the dev should be making the User Interface for the user, not for themselves...but they make it the way the program internally works, not the way the user needs to access those features.   

I have almost never been able to get this across to devs.   The Bakers here have been the most responsive of all of the devs I've ever worked with, but even they have this syndrome now and then, prioritizing program design and operation over user interface and user-experience like any other dev.    

 

Sometimes it is because a dev thinks they know how a feature should be used...but it doesn't matter what they think--what matters is what the *user* wants to do with the program and they way they need to do that, *especially* with art creation, as an artist is not going to do things in some programmatical way, in most cases.   Each one has a way that works for their art, and the program must be adapted or adaptable to that, which is one reason presets and other UI customizability is so very important.  There are many such improvements in customizability in Sonar / etc., though from the posts I see around here some of them could stand some improvement in user-awareness-functionality, and in control accessibility / state-visibility.   

 

It's not easy to make a UI at all, much less one that does all the things a complex program (like Sonar) can, and it's impossible to make a single UI that does everything every user needs it to in the way the user needs it to...so complete customizability is essential for such complex programs.    Customizability is even harder to create flawlessly than a fixed UI...so anyone attempting to do it at all gets my congratulations and eternal thanks, even while I goad them on to continuous further improvements.    

 

But when a program (or device) foists a UI on user, especially an artist, it is at best unhelpful, and usually actively prevents a user from doing the things they want to do.

 

 

As much as I dislike most of the current usages of AI, I can't wait until AI is advanced enough to alter existing programs for me tell it to create the UI I need, as I need it.  Or even just to create a UI "over the top" of the program, so that when I need to do something, it lets me tell it what controls I need, and what information I need displayed, and then I tell it what to do with those and it makes me the UI I need to see for the stuff I am doing at that time, and refine it as I go. 

 

 

Yeah, I get the same impression with REAPER devs, who don't use MIDI themselves... (Justin just records audio).

[Syphus]

I got another email from the dev - He stated that he is going to look into upgrading to allow preset saving since a few people have asked him about it - He stated he would let me know if anything changes . . .

 

Syphus

[Syphus]

FYI - Another email from the developer:

"Hey! I've just published a v2.1.0 update that allows you to load and save .crypt files of presets. It's the simplest implementation I could do, but hopefully it's good for your use case, let me know how you get on: https://www.vitling.xyz/crypt/"

 

Syphus

[Vitling]

Yeah, I added the feature, but honestly after reading this thread I kinda wish I hadn't bothered... the entitlement and disrespect toward me here is quite sad to read.

I'm just a guy programming stuff and making music in my apartment. Most of it is shared with the world for free. I can't know how everyone uses their music software, and I don't have a paid team of user testers out there to do UX research. I've been producing music for 20 years, I just don't use presets that much. I'm more sound-design oriented, starting from scratch with new sounds. I also mostly use Ableton Live, which has its own rack system that means for my purposes saving sounds is sort-of handled by the DAW.

I don't know how other DAWs work and how other people use their DAWs, which is why I'm happy to receive requests for features if people describe their use case to me so I can understand it fully. I want to have a broad spectrum of people able to get use out of what I do, but I don't want to add every single feature that any single person requests without good justification. Around 4000 people have downloaded Crypt since it was released, and I have had exactly 2 user requests for preset saving and loading, so clearly this isn't an absolutely essential feature that makes it "useless" without.

So maybe hold your bizarre rant-essay about "programmer syndrome" next time @Amberwolf, and your completely false assumption that I don't "seem to be very experienced" in music production @Esteban Villanova, and realise that (a) you are not the centre of the universe (b) different people use things in different ways (c) a polite friendly feature request goes a lot further than an angry rant against something that's missing and (d) this is a public forum.

Finally reminding y'all that nobody is paying me to do this, none of you have donated anything for the plugin, and this is also my first full-featured synth plugin so I'm still learning what kind of features are required by which sets of users.

 I really hope you enjoy the plugin, and of course the new preset load/save feature.

www.vitling.xyz

(PS: got no problem with you @Syphus, your emails were actually nice and respectful)

Edited 23 hours ago by Vitling

[fjz]

3 hours ago, Vitling said:

none of you have donated anything for the plugin

Let's see if they do now.

[MusicMan]

6 hours ago, Vitling said:

Yeah, I added the feature, but honestly after reading this thread I kinda wish I hadn't bothered... the entitlement and disrespect toward me here is quite sad to read.

I'm just a guy programming stuff and making music in my apartment. Most of it is shared with the world for free. I can't know how everyone uses their music software, and I don't have a paid team of user testers out there to do UX research. I've been producing music for 20 years, I just don't use presets that much. I'm more sound-design oriented, starting from scratch with new sounds. I also mostly use Ableton Live, which has its own rack system that means for my purposes saving sounds is sort-of handled by the DAW.

I don't know how other DAWs work and how other people use their DAWs, which is why I'm happy to receive requests for features if people describe their use case to me so I can understand it fully. I want to have a broad spectrum of people able to get use out of what I do, but I don't want to add every single feature that any single person requests without good justification. Around 4000 people have downloaded Crypt since it was released, and I have had exactly 2 user requests for preset saving and loading, so clearly this isn't an absolutely essential feature that makes it "useless" without.

So maybe hold your bizarre rant-essay about "programmer syndrome" next time @Amberwolf, and your completely false assumption that I don't "seem to be very experienced" in music production @Esteban Villanova, and realise that (a) you are not the centre of the universe (b) different people use things in different ways (c) a polite friendly feature request goes a lot further than an angry rant against something that's missing and (d) this is a public forum.

Finally reminding y'all that nobody is paying me to do this, none of you have donated anything for the plugin, and this is also my first full-featured synth plugin so I'm still learning what kind of features are required by which sets of users.

 I really hope you enjoy the plugin, and of course the new preset load/save feature.

www.vitling.xyz

(PS: got no problem with you @Syphus, your emails were actually nice and respectful)

Hey Vitling, welcome to the forum and thanks for stopping by and for offering the synth for free! I have been meaning to check it out 🙂

Just a note on presets, even if you're only creating them which I mostly do too, they  can be good for archiving in a project. If the project gets corrupted, or a future update of the DAW no longer opens the instrument, you lose everything. If you save the preset then you have more chance of being able to recreate it.

It also makes it easier to open up the instrument in another DAW for those that might use a couple of different ones.

They are a pretty good thing to include, as whether people ask or not, many people will be expecting them as they're somewhat standard, so it should make your synth more popular.

[Esteban Villanova]

12 hours ago, Vitling said:

Yeah, I added the feature, but honestly after reading this thread I kinda wish I hadn't bothered... the entitlement and disrespect toward me here is quite sad to read.

I'm just a guy programming stuff and making music in my apartment. Most of it is shared with the world for free. I can't know how everyone uses their music software, and I don't have a paid team of user testers out there to do UX research. I've been producing music for 20 years, I just don't use presets that much. I'm more sound-design oriented, starting from scratch with new sounds. I also mostly use Ableton Live, which has its own rack system that means for my purposes saving sounds is sort-of handled by the DAW.

I don't know how other DAWs work and how other people use their DAWs, which is why I'm happy to receive requests for features if people describe their use case to me so I can understand it fully. I want to have a broad spectrum of people able to get use out of what I do, but I don't want to add every single feature that any single person requests without good justification. Around 4000 people have downloaded Crypt since it was released, and I have had exactly 2 user requests for preset saving and loading, so clearly this isn't an absolutely essential feature that makes it "useless" without.

So maybe hold your bizarre rant-essay about "programmer syndrome" next time @Amberwolf, and your completely false assumption that I don't "seem to be very experienced" in music production @Esteban Villanova, and realise that (a) you are not the centre of the universe (b) different people use things in different ways (c) a polite friendly feature request goes a lot further than an angry rant against something that's missing and (d) this is a public forum.

Finally reminding y'all that nobody is paying me to do this, none of you have donated anything for the plugin, and this is also my first full-featured synth plugin so I'm still learning what kind of features are required by which sets of users.

 I really hope you enjoy the plugin, and of course the new preset load/save feature.

www.vitling.xyz

(PS: got no problem with you @Syphus, your emails were actually nice and respectful)

I'm really sorry for my snarky comments on this forum. I just typed them in without even considering that the developer would read them and of course it must feel awful that all your hard labor gets disrespected like that. I sincerely apologize. As I said in the email I think the sound of the synth is remarkable. I just donated a few bucks. Thanks for the update!

Edited 11 hours ago by Esteban Villanova

[audioschmaudio]

20 hours ago, Vitling said:

Yeah, I added the feature, but honestly after reading this thread I kinda wish I hadn't bothered... the entitlement and disrespect toward me here is quite sad to read.

I can imagine. 

When people get something for free and they complain about it ... just tell them they'll get their money back. 😉😄

Edited 3 hours ago by audioschmaudio