Export to MIDI Files, but respect Project Start and End markers?

[Anthony Bennett]

I generally start all of my projects on Bar 2 because I find it easier to see any info right on the first beat, and when doing a stem export, I always add a 1/2 beat of blank (dead) audio in front of the stems for live use (I'm exporting clicks and cues tracks as well so the 10-20ms of start-up dead audio isn't a problem).
I use the Project Start and End markers and then when Exporting Audio, always use these markers for the Range set to Time. Generally, if my Song starts on Bar 2, my Project Start marker is set to 1:04:480 (Clock is at 960 ppq).

The problem I'm now facing is that I now also want to export a handful of the MIDI tracks that contain device automation messages.
I need the exported MIDI file ('midi stem') to match the start time and duration of the Audio Stems that are also exported, as these will all be loaded into my Backing Track player and all need to be 'in sync'.

I know how to export tracks as a MIDI file - but this always exports from Bar 1 regardless of any markers or range selections (unless I'm doing something wrong?)
I know there is also the option to export MIDI Groove Clips, but I don't think this is the solution to my problem?

Is there any way to Export to MIDI AND have it respect Project Start and End markers (like Audio Export where Range = Time)?
If not, is there any other way to achieve my desired outcome?

Currently, the only way I'm finding to achieve the desired outcome is to:
1. Select the MIDI Tracks I want to export
2. Export MIDI to file
3. Open created MIDI file in Cakewalk
4. Set Tempo to same as original Cakewalk project
5. Ripple Edit and cut time from start of all tracks and then re-save MIDI file

....which is all a bit convoluted!

Thanks!

Edited 14 hours ago by Anthony Bennett

[57Gregy]

Put a MIDI note with a very low velocity at the place you want it to start, or other MIDI message.

[Anthony Bennett]

47 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

Put a MIDI note with a very low velocity at the place you want it to start, or other MIDI message.

Thank you! I had seen that workaround mentioned in some really old forum posts on the legacy forums but had hoped things had changed.... Obviously not. I guess I'll go add that to the Suggestions/Feature Requests!

QQ - Do you only have to do that on 1 of the tracks you are exporting? Or each track?

I tried just adding a controller or note on one of the tracks at the point I'd like to start the export (1:04:480), and then Exporting MIDI, but I'm still getting the same result (i.e. export is always from Bar 1).

Edited 14 hours ago by Anthony Bennett

[Bass Guitar]

Im afraid you are right and really the easiest solution is to save as the midi file and export the audio starting at zero as well. 
Basically the export dialogue as well as the start and end markers are for audio export only. 
 

MIDI export has no options. 

[Promidi]

2 hours ago, Anthony Bennett said:

QQ - Do you only have to do that on 1 of the tracks you are exporting? Or each track?

Just one

Personally, I use a controller rather than a note.  A CC64 > 0 event is a good candidate.

[Anthony Bennett]

18 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Just one

Personally, I use a controller rather than a note.  A CC64 > 0 event is a good candidate.

Hmmm.. I must be doing something wrong because I keep getting the same export.

Here's what I'm doing in case someone can point out my error.

Desired Goal:

• MIDI file export to consist of 6 MIDI tracks from my song
• I want the export to start from 1:04:480 of the song in Cakewalk Sonar (my first actual MIDI event is at 2:00:000)

Steps I'm performing:

1. Add a controller (CC64 = 0) at 1:04:480 in one of the 6 MIDI tracks I'm exporting
2. Select the 6 MIDI tracks I want to be exported (they are in their own folder in case it makes any difference).
   I do note that by default the selection range is from 1:00:000 to 129:04:758 (129:04:758 is the last MIDI event in one of the other tracks I'm not exporting) - is this part of the problem?
3. Then from the File menu, select Export -> Standard MIDI File -> Save As Type = MIDI File Format 1

If I now take this exported MIDI file and open it in Cakewalk to validate the contents, I have my 6 MIDI tracks but I'm still getting the 'dummy' MIDI event I created in Step 1 above at 1:04:480 instead of 1:00:000 which is what I'm trying to achieve.

In Step 2. above I've also tried setting the Select range from 1:04:480 to 132:01:000 (my actual desired range) but the export is still the same, i.e. from 1:00:000.

Edited 11 hours ago by Anthony Bennett

[Amberwolf]

FWIW, instead of exporting, if you just want a MIDI clip "as-is" you can ctrl-drag it out to a Windows Explorer window with the folder of your choice.   This copies just that clip.

If you have a bunch of clips to do this for, select them all and drag them out, and you'll get one file per clip.    

Doing this creates filenames with "the project name , track name (clip number).mid".

 

If you need an entire track's worth of clips as a single file, just bounce it to a clip, and then ctrl-drag taht clip out.  (you can then undo the BtC if you like).

 

If the clips don't start where you want them to, you can drag the clip out to that point...but...whatever you do, it will still require a midi event of some kind at the start of where you want the clips (and the same for the end of the clips).  

 

 

[Promidi]

Set your From and Thru markers to the start and end of what you want to expert.  

The From and Thru markers have to be present AND the tracks need to be selected.

I just tested this by exporting measure 100 to 102 of a 181 measure MIDI project. 

The resultant MIDI file started at 1:00:000.

[Anthony Bennett]

29 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Set your From and Thru markers to the start and end of what you want to expert.  

The From and Thru markers have to be present AND the tracks need to be selected.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I'm doing exactly that.
I've just re-tested and taken a screenshot in case someone spots something.

Here, I've set FROM: 1:04:480 and TO: 6:00:000
I have the tracks I want to export selected.
As per the Events List, there is a CC64=0 MIDI controller event at 1:04:480

When I open the exported MIDI file in Cakewalk, it has respected the TO value (i.e. no MIDI events after 6:00:000 were included) but it seems to ignore FROM as my first dummy event is still at 1:04:480 and not 1:00:000

In other words, I'm expecting all the events in my export to have shifted FORWARD (left) by 1:04:480 (the equivalent of doing a Ripple Edit and deleting the hole).

 

Am I misunderstanding something here?

Edited 10 hours ago by Anthony Bennett

[Base 57]

I'm not positive but I don't think that Sonar can export a midi track that starts with a partial measure. The first measure in a midi track must start at beat 1.

It can be a 1/4 measure, but it can't start on beat 4.

Edited 7 hours ago by Base 57

[Anthony Bennett]

2 hours ago, Base 57 said:

I'm not positive but I don't think that Sonar can export a midi track that starts with a partial measure. The first measure in a midi track must start at beat 1.

It can be a 1/4 measure, but it can't start on beat 4.

Oh!?

If that is the case, that is just plain bizarre.

I'm sure if that is the case, it begs the question why it treats Audio export and MIDI export so differently. I suspect the reasoning will be that the MIDI export part of the codebase is 15+ years old while the audio export part was written separately more recently.