Where should the plug-in for automatic pitch calibration be placed?

[happen135]

In order to deal with singers with poor intonation, I bought a low latency auto correction plug-in, so the problem is, I should put it in plug-in FX? Or in the new effect chain of prochannal? In order to reduce the workload of Melodyne, how can I get a relatively accurate audio waveform?

[OutrageProductions]

When that happens in my facility, I just hire different singers. 😁

[msmcleod]

Personally, I'd put it in the vocal track's FX bin, as the first effect - however that does depend on (a) what I'm using in the Pro Channel, and (b) whether I'm using the Pro Channel pre or post FX bin.

Typically I set my Pro Channel to be post (default is pre), as I tend to use the FX Bin for sound design and the Pro Channel for mixing.  

But basically, you want the pitch correction to come first in the chain, as you don't want it pitch-correcting any effects on top.

It sounds like you want to use this as a real-time effect while recording though...  real-time pitch based effects can be really off-putting for the singer, and may actually turn out worse.  By all means try it, but I suspect you'll get a better vocal take from an emotional/expression point of view than recording through pitch correction - i.e. disable the plugin during recording, then enable it for playback.  You may be able to tweak it using automation to bring it in/out at various points.

 

[happen135]

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Personally, I'd put it in the vocal track's FX bin, as the first effect - however that does depend on (a) what I'm using in the Pro Channel, and (b) whether I'm using the Pro Channel pre or post FX bin.

Typically I set my Pro Channel to be post (default is pre), as I tend to use the FX Bin for sound design and the Pro Channel for mixing.  

But basically, you want the pitch correction to come first in the chain, as you don't want it pitch-correcting any effects on top.

It sounds like you want to use this as a real-time effect while recording though...  real-time pitch based effects can be really off-putting for the singer, and may actually turn out worse.  By all means try it, but I suspect you'll get a better vocal take from an emotional/expression point of view than recording through pitch correction - i.e. disable the plugin during recording, then enable it for playback.  You may be able to tweak it using automation to bring it in/out at various points.

 

Thank you, Mr. MSMCLeod. That's right, I am trying to place the automatic pitch correction effect between the recording sound card input and Sonar, without considering the singer's feelings. I just want to reduce the workload of manual pitch correction in the later stage. As you said, the feasibility is not high，I rarely hear of anyone doing this。

[mettelus]

56 minutes ago, happen135 said:

I just want to reduce the workload of manual pitch correction in the later stage

I have rarely seen this effective unless the correction is minuscule. The "real-time" versions tend to add CPU overhead and miss the mark with corrections farily readily. If you need to do significant changes, this is better to do in post-production with Melodyne, either the whole track in one go with its macros, or surgically for specific issues.

Also bear in mind that if this is in an FX rack, it doesn't alter what was saved to disc (is simply processing that). You would need to bounce that FX to get the file corrected, unless you plan to run the FX forever (not recommended either).

Edited Wednesday at 01:11 PM by mettelus

[happen135]

12 hours ago, mettelus said:

I have rarely seen this effective unless the correction is minuscule. The "real-time" versions tend to add CPU overhead and miss the mark with corrections farily readily. If you need to do significant changes, this is better to do in post-production with Melodyne, either the whole track in one go with its macros, or surgically for specific issues.

Also bear in mind that if this is in an FX rack, it doesn't alter what was saved to disc (is simply processing that). You would need to bounce that FX to get the file corrected, unless you plan to run the FX forever (not recommended either).

You're right. I've been using melodyne to do the late tone correction, and the workload is quite heavy, so I want to take a shortcut to see if there is a way to be lazy. Now it seems that it's not feasible, right? Then I have to lower my head to work hard.

[mettelus]

Even Melodyne is working with the file written to disc during recording. If this is someone you work with fairly frequently, the goal of improving that recorded file (to minimize post-production) would be another focus to consider. If you Google "Apps to Train Voice Pitch," there are several out there, with some more like games to make them more fun. Some of those apps also focus on the unique range of the singer, which is another thing that should be taken into consideration with song choice/composition. As alluded to above, if post-production becomes tedious (with any instrument), a large portion of that falls back onto the performance, and the performer should also be improving their art rather than relying on you for post-production.

[Bass Guitar]

In a perfect world we would chase away clients who have little or no experience or talent. But running a small business requires we at least try and help everyone who comes around asking to use our services. 

In my studio if a singer came in and sang obviously way out of key I would create a vocal guide track for them. A lot of unprofessional singers are used to singing to Karaoke tracks which have a guide vocal. 
 

Ok, that made for some improvement but what next. 

We still are sitting there recording a few takes that we know are out of key. 
Repeated takes are not getting any better. 

Playback the recording and see what their reaction is. What you hear and what they hear can be very different. 

It’s their money they are spending. 
I always let clients know that my job is the sound engineer, Im here to capture and record. 

It is not my job to “Produce “ . That’s a different hat. 

I will only assist them in “Producing “ They ultimately need to make the calls on performance quality. Or bring in a friend or spouse to assist. 

As we all know a bad performance will result in way more editing and this ultimately is up to them. It’s their money. 
 

If in the end they walk out the door with a recording that is sung out of key is that my fault? 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:52 PM by Bass Guitar

[Byron Dickens]

+1 on the vocal guide track; it can work wonders. Some churches hire a ringer for each section of the choir. If there is a really strong singer, the others around that person tend to naturally gravitate towards their pitch. 

[Glenn Stanton]

and a more 21st century approach, replace their vocals with a combination of Synth V and an AI voice-over rendering engine 🙂 

1. use Melodyne to force best pitch correction w/o too much weirdness
2. export as WAV and load  into Synth V and do convert to audio
3. pick approximate voice and tweak as needed
4. export Synth V to WAV, then import that into the AI voice-over render engine and pick a decent voice similar to theirs or whatever they want
5. Render new vocal into the AI voice. export, and import that into the DAW project.

ok, so now their lead vocal sounds like Bob Seger, Celine, that Grande person, or someone else  in perfect pitch etc. but hey, at least they get to go home with a pro sounding track. 🙂