Cannot figure out why Export different than mix I hear

[dougalex]

I have a Sonar file that the relative level of two tracks sound like a completely balance between the two tracks when comparing the playback mix to the exported mix.

Can anyone at Cakewalk or other users check this short two track project and explain what is going on?

In playback mix I made the lead synth fairly low and the other track (Piano with swooshy pad) louder.

But after export it is opposite result, the lead synth is louder. 

Here is link to CWZ (Cakewalk zip file) on Google Drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mL6kCymb4La5226j-tKQ7YoJrCgDeV2/view?usp=sharing

Edited May 12 by dougalex

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Your master bus fader is at -11.1dB

This should always be at 0.0

That's your first step

Also, the zip file doesn't contain any audio so further diagnosis isn't really possible

[Amberwolf]

Exactly what export options are you using? 

[dougalex]

5 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Your master bus fader is at -11.1dB

This should always be at 0.0

That's your first step

Also, the zip file doesn't contain any audio so further diagnosis isn't really possible

Yes just FYI

1] I had turned down the Master after the problem started to better compare the mix at same volume as the export

2] cwz files should include audio  so not sure why no audio

[dougalex]

6 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

Exactly what export options are you using? 

I use my usual:

Entire Mix, 48k, 24bit

The strange thing is I tested a fresh new project with those same wav files and it was fine.

But the project I need is the one with all my mix and fixes. If my project will not export the mix properly because it is corrupted, that would be a first for me after 20+ years of using Cakewalk/Sonar.

The CWZ file I posted has all tracks deleted except for two just to make it straightforward to see/hear the problem.

 

[dougalex]

9 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

the zip file doesn't contain any audio so further

If you tried to open the cwz file, the files are on you computer. The only trick is you have to tell Sonar where they are (and good to select "reference from current location").

I confirmed this by going to another computer, downloaded and opened the CWZ file, responded to Sonar prompt for location of wav files, and it opened fine.

Edited May 12 by dougalex

[Will.]

9 hours ago, dougalex said:

But after export it is opposite result, the lead synth is louder. 

This could be that one track has been recorded at a much lower level than the other. Reach for an analyzer tool | or pay attention to your peak meter digits.

The waveforms themselves is also a good visual perspective to look at for matching levels. If one is softer than the other, try to gain match them at the waveform level as you try to get both readings at the same peak level on the metering side. Aim for -18dB or -14dB meter level while gain matching the waveforms. Increase the gain on the Waveform that is the softest by +3dB while matching the louder one with a negative value of -3db to balance them out.  When satisfied with the levels of the waveform side you can then go ahead and balance the entire track on the mixing side with Track gain and Volume levels. 

[dougalex]

10 minutes ago, Will. said:

one track has been recorded at a much lower level than the other

But this is more like a corruption on this project: I have been mixing on Sonar for 20+ years and the export always has same mix (balance EQ effects) as the mix I had right before export. (i.e. the whole point of the DAW's existence 😐)

Edited May 12 by dougalex

[Will.]

19 minutes ago, dougalex said:

But this is more like a corruption on this project: I have been mixing on Sonar for 20+ years and the export always has same mix (balance EQ effects) as the mix I had right before export. (i.e. the whole point of the DAW's existence 😐)

I've just downloaded the project - and yes, my suspicion was correct. The MATT track is barely audible. The difference is clear as daylight within the DAW 

PLUS: You even made it worse by lowering the gain and the volume.  The MATT track that is already the softest recording has its Gain lowered to -6.5dB and the Volume to -7.7db.

The Doug track that is the loudest track in the recording has its Gain raised +6.2dB and the track Volume is at 0.0dB

Edited May 12 by Will.

[dougalex]

The plot thickens:

Keep in mind the situation: I like my mix so I export it, but in the export, several tracks are much lower than I just heard in mix (NOT talking about overall mix level, it is relative levels of instruments in the mix)

Use of Aux track seems to be involved

I am using an Aux track to combine a left/right keyboard tracks to one fader. When  I set the keyboard track back to Master, as opposed to Aux track, the bizarre problem (Export mix not same as heard before export) goes away. Also keep in mind, when I bypass the Aux track on the keyboards, the problem not only goes away on the keyboard track, but the problem goes away on the other affected tracks, which are UNRELATED to the use of Aux track on keyboard tracks.

Edited May 12 by dougalex

[dougalex]

5 hours ago, Will. said:

The MATT track is barely audible

BTW, first, thanks for downloading the project and checking it out!

Please understand the troubleshooting here:

Step 1]  I purposely made "MATT" drastically low in volume and "DOUG" loud in the mix.
Step 2] I "Export Entire mix" and check the Export results, which, surprisingly, NOW (in the Export) "MATT" is now louder than "DOUG"

I created a fresh new project with those two wav files and Export was fine.
So I think something is corrupted in that one project (the one uploaded)

 

Edited May 12 by dougalex

[Xoo]

Just a thought, but have you tried a realtime export?

[dougalex]

10 hours ago, Xoo said:

Just a thought, but have you tried a realtime export?

Yes, same result. 😐

[Max Arwood]

If the export is softer, you could have  bussing errors. 

Edited May 16 by Max Arwood

[msmcleod]

On 5/12/2025 at 9:07 AM, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Your master bus fader is at -11.1dB

This should always be at 0.0

That's your first step

Also, the zip file doesn't contain any audio so further diagnosis isn't really possible

^^^ This... well actually, not your master bus, but the master fader for your hardware output.

Your hardware output fader should always be at 0.0, then adjust your master fader accordingly.

It's fine to also have your master bus fader at 0.0,  but you must have your hardware output fader at 0.0 for it to export at the same volume.

[dougalex]

20 hours ago, msmcleod said:

you must have your hardware output fader at 0.0 for it to export at the same volume

I know that is all good information.... and appreciated.

I just had hoped someone could confirm that this particular project must be corrupted because, the exported mix does not match the relative volume of the two tracks being heard right before the export.

i.e. I am not talking about the overall level, I am talking how one of tracks exports at a different level thereby changing the mix (the balance between tracks, not the overall level)

[msmcleod]

5 hours ago, dougalex said:

I know that is all good information.... and appreciated.

I just had hoped someone could confirm that this particular project must be corrupted because, the exported mix does not match the relative volume of the two tracks being heard right before the export.

i.e. I am not talking about the overall level, I am talking how one of tracks exports at a different level thereby changing the mix (the balance between tracks, not the overall level)

Audio export runs at a much higher speed, and unfortunately not all plugins work properly when they're running at top speed (the vast majority do though).

It could of course be project corruption, in which case re-creating the problem track will probably fix it.

The way to determine this is to do a real-time export.   If the real-time export works, then it's a plugin problem; if it's still wrong, then look at recreating possible problem tracks.