Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Hi, I search how change variation on my TR8S with midi command. It seems that it's possible with this (see below), in sysex ... Please help me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 @Joël JAGODZINSKI they look like Sysex commands. Do you know what each line does, each line is a single Sysex command. To use them you put them in the Sysex tab, normally only one line for any one song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) I have experience using sysex commands (even mining for undocumented commands for some of my gear), but I have no idea what a TR8S is. If someone else here does (and maybe even has experience with it with sysex commands), great! If not and if you post a link to the manual (whichever one has the full MIDI implementation full manual, separate MIDI manual, etc.). I'd be happy to take a look. All I know is the the manufacturer's ID is within this range: 40H to 5FH[Assigned by AMEI for Japanese Manufacturers] OK. So I looked up and found the "Reference Guide" and the MIDI Implementation Guide. Neither of those spell out the details for the TR8S's system exclusive command implementation. Older Roland manuals used to have that. In fact I used to do all sorts of stuff with my CA-30 and RA-30 Intelligent Arrangers in addition to other Roland sound modules (starting with the MT-32). Where did you get the sysex? From 2018, I found some posts: Quote I wouldn’t hold your breath on sysex specs - I’ve done some work in for them in the past and outside of what is published in their manuals and midi specs, they don’t provide anything. This might actually be because there are no sysex specs to publish due to nothing being supported - for machines that do have sysex (e.g. JDXA, TB3) these are fully documented - so we can only assume that those without specs don’t have anything. Quote From Roland support again, I’ve had confirmation that there’s no sysex implementation. Edited May 1 by User 905133 to remove empty lines at the bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Wookiee said: . . .they look like Sysex commands. Do you know what each line does, each line is a single Sysex command. To use them you put them in the Sysex tab, normally only one line for any one song. They ARE Sysex commands. If the OP got them from mining the hardware along with some software tools (eg MIDI-OX), that's one thing. But if they are just copy and pasted from a list of sysex from unrelated gear, that's totally different. ADDENDUM (just a historical footnote, which I suspect you might already know): In older gear when Roland documented the sysex accessible addresses, it was indeed very possible to put multiple addresses and values to go into those addresses in a single command [F0 . . . F7]. Of course, for each command, you had to calculate the 7-bit checksum for the last value before the End of Transmission marker. So, for that reason many times it was less painful to have a whole bunch of individual sysex commands rather than cut and paste sysex strings [address, value] into a single command. My most recent Roland gear is from the last century, so I have no idea what if any sysex accessibility that had starting in the 21st century. Edited May 1 by User 905133 added a footnote about Roland's sysex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 @User 905133 I was totally aware of what they are, I didn't want scare the OP, as it was apparent she/it/he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 50 minutes ago, Wookiee said: @User 905133 I was totally aware of what they are, I didn't want scare the OP, as it was apparent she/it/he didn't. 4 hours ago, User 905133 said: 5 hours ago, Wookiee said: . . . they look like Sysex commands. ADDENDUM (just a historical footnote, which I suspect you might already know) Thanks for confirming that you already knew (as I suspected). To be honest, at first I wasn't going to try to help because I had no idea what a TR8S was, but decided to look it up because I knew the 41 [manufacturer's ID] looked very familiar. So, I decided to look for the MIDI documentation. I had no idea Roland no longer made the details of their MIDI commands available. Hexadecimal can be quite scary. And playing around with it too much can make someone go blind. 🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 58 minutes ago, User 905133 said: Thanks for confirming that you already knew (as I suspected). To be honest, at first I wasn't going to try to help because I had no idea what a TR8S was, but decided to look it up because I knew the 41 [manufacturer's ID] looked very familiar. So, I decided to look for the MIDI documentation. I had no idea Roland no longer made the details of their MIDI commands available. Hexadecimal can be quite scary. And playing around with it too much can make someone go blind. 🤪 Oh try writing code, in machine code. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberwolf Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 3 hours ago, User 905133 said: Hexadecimal can be quite scary. And playing around with it too much can make someone go blind. 🤪 I prefer to play with my deweydecimals. Way less math, lots more words..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 Thanks to tour answers. The TR8S is a rythm composer from Roland. You can create some rythm patterns like other historic TR, but they added 8 variations by pattern. The pattern can be called with midi CC but not the variations. These sysex lines came from Roland, found in the Roland forum. But I received another answer from Roland, see below: "I'm sorry to say that there're no documentation (MIDI SYS EX chart) regarding using SYS EX with the TR-8S. But I found this information online, maybe it can be helpful for you if you want to use SYS EX with the unit? https://github.com/compuphonic/TR-8S-SysEx https://mididesigner.com/qa/10040/roland-tr-8s-sysex-whats-what I hope you find this information useful. Please reply to this email if you need any further assistance." There is a lot of informations on sysex possibility for the TR8S I controled the sysex message which seem to be correct: Roland: 41 device id: 10 model id: 00 00 00 45 I just have to put the 8 lines in the sysextab, and in events list add when I want a sysex command which point on the good line of the sysextab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted Wednesday at 02:26 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 02:26 PM Hi everybody, Finally I managed to change the variations of a pattern on my TR8S with a sysex message, from cakewalk!!!!!! Variation A sur pattern 1-01: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 01 1E F7 Variation B sur pattern 1-01: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 02 1D F7 Variation A sur pattern 1-02: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 10 00 41 00 01 0E F7 Pattern: 2# ## xx xx 20 00 pattern 0 20 10 pattern 1 .... 2F 70 pattern 127 Pattern+Variation: 2x xx 00 41 00 01 (A) 00 02 (B) 00 03 (C) 00 04 (D) I don't test the E/F/G/H yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted Wednesday at 06:27 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:27 PM (edited) Glad to hear you found the secrets to using Roland's sysex to switch patterns/variations. For all the Rolands I did sysex parameter changes on, I always thought Roland's scheme made sense once I got the basics down. For me the tricky part was calculating the correct checksum. I often made math errors adding up all the relevant bytes. So, I found it easiest (and more reliable) to take a sysex byte chain that I knew worked and tweak it--if I added 5 to the parameter value, I subtracted 5 from the checksum [staying in the 00H to 7FH range]. When I get a chance, I'll look at the sources you found--just because I am curious. So, thanks for including the links. BTW, if Roland doesn't know how their TR8S Sysex is designed, its nice that someone took the time to document it and then to share it with the world. Again, congratulations for getting the SECRET CODE to work!! Edited Wednesday at 06:29 PM by User 905133 fixed typo "change" to "chain" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted Wednesday at 07:49 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 07:49 PM Tomorrow, I ‘ll send the good sequences for the 8 variations (A-H) for the pattern 1. I make an error in the previous message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted Wednesday at 08:32 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 08:32 PM 2 hours ago, User 905133 said: if Roland doesn't know how their TR8S Sysex is designed I get the impression that they're not so interested in legacy support in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted Thursday at 02:50 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 02:50 PM I send this morning all the definitions and the links for the control of the variarion of the TR8S..... and nothing in the forum ?????!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted Thursday at 02:52 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 02:52 PM I try again The sysex message to be able to change variation of a pattern for TR8S (tested with cakewalk): (Exemple for variation A of pattern 1-01) F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 01 1E F7 F0: start msg 41: id Roland 10: device id (16) 00 00 00 45: model id 12: data transmit (11 for data request) 20 00 00 41: memory address, for pattern 1 → 20 00, pattern 2 ->20 10,…, pattern 127 ->2F 70 and “41” for variation address 00 01: data variation A->00 01, B->00 02, C->00 04, D->00 08, E->01 00, F->02 00, G->04 00, H->08 00 1E: checksum F7: stop msg Variations for pattern 1-01: A: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 01 1E F7 B: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 02 1D F7 😄 F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 04 1B F7 😧 F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 00 08 17 F7 E: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 01 00 1E F7 F: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 02 00 1D F7 G: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 04 00 1B F7 H: F0 41 10 00 00 00 45 12 20 00 00 41 08 00 17 F7 RegardsTR6s - 8s SysEx Format 250302.pdfTR-8s TR-6s SysEx Implementation 24-04-17.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted Thursday at 03:57 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:57 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Joël JAGODZINSKI said: I send this morning all the definitions and the links for the control of the variarion of the TR8S..... and nothing in the forum ?????!!!! What do you mean "nothing in the forum ?????!!!!!?" OK. I figured out: you posted the definitions and the files and they didn't show up so you posted them a second time. Edited Thursday at 04:16 PM by User 905133 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joël JAGODZINSKI Posted 22 hours ago Author Share Posted 22 hours ago yes exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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