Is a Mixer or Audio Interface needed for multi track recording drums?

[RetroProgDrummer]

I use a mixer currently. A Depensheng DX12 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V1D94DR?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

Everywhere I've looked in forum threads & in general searches mention an audio interface. I know they're better in general especially for sound conversion but are they required for multi-tracking? I use 12 microphones hooked up to the mixer for my drum set and didn't realize I can post mix with Cakewalk but if I can't record each track to mic individually then it would defeat the purpose of using it as a DAW. I may have experimented with this years ago and realized it was impossible but needed some further insight since my recent research keeps bringing me to 'use an audio interface'. Would that be why they're so much more expensive Vs Mixers?

[OutrageProductions]

To convert an analog audio source to a digital (computer/DAW) data stream you MUST have an AD/DA audio interface. 

If you want to track (in real time) multiple sources (like a drum kit), said interface MUST have a discrete input channel for each microphone desired.

[Mr No Name]

both ideally, or an audio interface with 12 mic inputs ?

don't think one exists.

[Amberwolf]

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

I use a mixer currently. A Depensheng DX12 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V1D94DR?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

Does this mixer feed audio into the computer?   (you may have to check it's manual if you've never used ti this way)

Or does it record it's inputs onto a memory card or internal drive, that you can then download it's wave files into the computer?

 

If not, then you would require an audio interface of some kind, even if it's just the line-in built into a laptop (which would suck, but...).  Otherwise you have no way to get audio into the computer. 

 

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

Everywhere I've looked in forum threads & in general searches mention an audio interface. I know they're better in general especially for sound conversion but are they required for multi-tracking?

They are required for sound conversion, period, whether using single tracks, stereo tracks, or many tracks in mono or stereo.  (even if it's built into a mixer or computer, you still need one)

 

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

I use 12 microphones hooked up to the mixer for my drum set and didn't realize I can post mix with Cakewalk but if I can't record each track to mic individually then it would defeat the purpose of using it as a DAW.

If you need each mic's track separately and simultaneously recorded, you'll need at minimum a 12 channel audio interface. 

 

If you are recording the microphones directly into the computer without mixing them down first, that interface also requires mic inputs on each channel (some only have them on certain ones), and if they are condenser mics you also must have phantom power on each channel.    

If you don't find one that has that many mic inputs, you'll need to add mic-to-line level conversion equipment to any channel that doesn't have a mic input that you must plug a mic into. 

 

You will want to be sure the interface has a *real* ASIO driver for your computer type and operating system version.  Many that claim to have ASIO drivers do not, and use "steinberg asio" or "asio4all" or "universal asio" and none of those are real low-latency ASIO drivers that you will require to do what you want.  

 

You'll also need a computer that can simultaneously record *and play back* that many tracks plus all your effects and any other things you want at the same time, with a harddisk large enough and fast enough to store all those tracks and all the other things you mix down or record along the way.   

 

 

Before buying, i recommend looking around for people that are doing exactly what you want to be doing, that are doing it without problems, and then use the same system and hardware that they are using, so that you will have the least amount of trouble and problems in setting it up and doing the work you want to do.  

 

 

Edited April 30 by Amberwolf

[RetroProgDrummer]

Ok, looks like I'll be needing an Evo16 then with that smart gain feature. I could always add-on to it in the future as well. Thank you all for your helpful information ☺️

[Amberwolf]

You might want to recheck it's specs.  Unless they have really messed up the wording, I think you'll need two of them to record 12 mics. Or other additional hardware. 

https://evo.audio/products/audio-interfaces/evo-16/overview/

Quote

Eight award winning EVO Preamps alongside our advanced converter technology will make everything you do, sound better. Add to that, intelligent mic preamps that set their own levels with Smartgain, the all new, groundbreaking Motion UI control system, and enough I/O firepower to tackle even the biggest of sessions, EVO 16 is truly a studio powerhouse, designed from the ground up to make recording easy

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EVO16--audient-evo-16-usb-audio-interface

Quote

Eight stunning Evo microphone preamps

Evo 16's eight Evo mic preamps 

Number of Preamps:8 x mic

 

 

They don't mention what driver they use, and don't appear to have a download for it anywhere on their site, none of the support articles their own search finds are from this decade, or find ASIO in any of them.  This is the only comment they have, which doesn't say anything useful at all (since they don't define or state the actual latency, driver type, OS supported by it, etc):  

Quote

 with rock solid driver performance, high-speed USB connection, and ultra low latency monitoring,

 

[57Gregy]

This is from their web site: "RECORD AND CONNECT TO PC: This personal mixer has a USB soundcard and audio interface to record and connect to MAC or PC"

That doesn't mean it can record to PC 12 tracks at a time, though. Many of these low-cost USB mixers will only record a stereo signal to the computer. And as mentioned, I don't see anything about what driver it uses. For 185 USD, I don't think it will do what you want.

An audio interface that has native ASIO drivers and can record that many tracks will be needed. 

[mettelus]

10 hours ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

Depensheng DX12 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V1D94DR?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

I cannot even find a manual on that guy. The manufacturer's site circles back to Amazon!

Something to check because I cannot find the manual, and you "should" have a hard copy... The USB capabilities of that unit are not explained well at all... it seems you can either record directly to a USB drive or connect that to a PC/MAC. It does not specify the number of channels (I assume this is the stereo mix only); but, if there are unit specific drivers for it, you can install those and connect it to your PC and see what Sonar is telling you is available from it. It is highly likely that is only a stereo mix output, but you would need to test that to actually see for yourself.

As mentioned above, even higher level mixers often have limited number stereo mix outputs (and often no A/D conversion), so to get that information into a computer is going to need an audio interface capable of the task.

Edited May 1 by mettelus

[msmcleod]

In general, cheaper mixers with a USB interface only provide a stereo mix to your computer, so you can't record the individual channels.

For multi-track recording, you need a multi-track interface.

There are some mixers that are also multi-track interfaces, e.g.

Tascam Model Series (Model 12, 16, 24 and  2400 ) - these also work as stand-alone mixers and recorders, so you get the choice of sending multiple tracks to your computer or recording multiple tracks to an SD card which you can then import into your DAW. 

Soundcraft Signature MTK series -  similar to the Tascam Model series, except it only offers multiple track recording over USB to your DAW - i.e. you can't record to an SD card. DO NOT confuse the non-MTK series with the MTK series - e.g. the Signature 24 is stereo only, whereas the Signature 24 MTK is multi-track.  This is reflected in the price, so if you think you're getting a bargain, double-check it's the right model.

Zoom L8, L12, L20 - These offer both multi-track recording over USB to your DAW and SD card recording.  The mixer is typical digital mixer setup rather than an analog mixer setup.

AFAIK, all of the above mixers, with the exception of the Tascam Model 12 and Tascam Model 2400 record pre-EQ.  In other words, it'll send the signal to your DAW before any EQ is added.  This is because they're primarily designed for live use, where you'd record the clean signal to SD card/computer, and use EQ / Faders for the live mix.  

FWIW, this was the blocker for me with these products (the Model 2400 wasn't available at the time), so I opted for an Allen & Heath Mixwizard WZ3 analog mixer connected via its direct channel outs to 2 x Fostex VC8's which in turn go to an RME Digiface USB.

If you don't mind not using a mixer, you any audio interface with ADAT inputs will suffice. 

For years I used the Focusrite 18i20 with a Behringer ADA8000 connected to it via ADAT - this gave me 8 inputs via the 18i20, and a further 8 inputs via the ADA8000.

All the major manufacturers do equivalents, each with their own unique features.  What you're looking for is an interface with at least 8 analog inputs as standard, and an ADAT port for additional inputs. 

As far as ADAT expanders go, the Behringer ADA8200 has now replaced the ADA8000 and has better pre-amps.  Focusrite have their own equivalent expander in the Octopre, and there are plenty of others by other manufacturers.