syncing audio and video

[LNovik@aol.com]

When I create music videos aimed at friends and family, I find that it is very tricky/time consuming to sync the audio to the video.  I'm not talking about just doing it once, but since I break up multiple video tracks to sync with the one audio track I have edited with CBL, I have to do it quite frequently. Though, as I shape this question in my mind, I realize that the place I really want to   sync these two is in my video editing software (Adobe Premiere Elements.)  However, I know I used to hear about some type of time code, that would--I assume-- make it much easier to pair the audio and multiple video tracks. Is this something that is used? And, if so, how can I access it? What I'm thinking is that thru CBL, I could label the audio with time code. And then match up the video in Adobe with the time code of the video segments.

Thanks.

LNovik

[Bass Guitar]

I believe you need to be using professional cameras that can record a syncing time code. 

Using podcasting cameras or a cell phone you're going to have to use the old fashion method of having the Clap board. 

Myself I make sure all cameras are recording from the start to finish. And that all cameras are recording the audio.  I make sure there's some sort of a count in and I line that up at the start and it's usually good to go.  

It's super hard to add video footage that starts later on the time line. 

I have two methods I might use.  

At a live show- I video record myself singing and playing guitar along with the pre recorded backing tracks. I get someone to run the camera and a few times I set up 3 cameras. My mixer is a Zoom L8 so I can record the show to multi track audio to an SD card directly.  I have good audio quality but sometimes I suck and it's not that great.   So I cheat and back in the studio if the live vocal sucks I just use my studio recording and avoid close ups of my lips! I fade in the intro and the applause at the end. 

If the vocals are good I will still add the studio recording of the backing track. For sure I try and keep the live guitar solos. 

For studio video recording I'm still working this out. But my first attempts are recording my myself as I sing and play guitar as well as I video myself playing the other instruments. I just got a Zoom Q2n to do this with.  As the camera records the audio is being recorded to my Daw and the only hick up right now is I sort of have to do the whole song without screwing up when shooting the first part with me singing.  The other parts are easy to cheat. Otherwise I would have the problem you are having! It's either that or get good at lip syncing. That ain't gunna happen. 

Note that this project I'm not using backing tracks but a snare drums and Bass. Then I might add a lead guitar. 

If I use backing tracks I would then probably use my in ear monitors. 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:13 PM by Bass Guitar

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

I believe you need to be using professional cameras that can record a syncing time code. 

Not necessarily "required" but this does help. An alternative to try is:

1.  (Many) cameras also record audio, so be sure to capture that (you probably won't be using any of it, but see below).
2. In a video editor (not a DAW), you can essentially replace the camera's audio track with the DAW output (be sure the sample rates coincide). The clapboard technique of aligning transients should be simple prior to removing the camera audio (essentially split the video from audio in the video editor, align the DAW track (don't remove sections from it in the DAW, to make sure they mate end to end), then re-link the video to the DAW audio in the video editor).
3. From there, again working in the video editor, the video/audio will remain mated (important point), so you can ripple edit out sections as needed and they will remain aligned. When working with multiple cameras, this also allows bebopping back and forth between views.

Big picture, a video editor allows for seamless ripple/razor editing, so keep what the camera saw in mind when working in the DAW and be sure to only remove content in the video editor (after the video and DAW audio are mated). Depending on the video editor, some are also VST hosts, so you can minimize time spent in the DAW before working on the video aspect.

[Bass Guitar]

@mettelus  which video editor are you using? I'm still on Vegas pro because it sort of works more like a Daw for me.  You mentioned separating the Camera audio track  from the video track. In Vegas I do this and place them at the very bottom so all the audio tracks are stacked together. This allows me to line them all up best as I can.  I find that because video works in a pre frame format I can't always get this perfect. But only my polished up Daw track will be heard anyways.   

It seems I cannot delete the original camera audio tracks. It deletes the video as well. So I just shrink and mute them.  

And yes you can actually record audio, and use all your plug ins in Vegas. It will even tool copy the audio into Sound Forge or Wave Lab for fine tuning.  I like that it supports DX as my go to compressor is the Sonitus. I then use the Loud Max Brick wall limiter set at -1.0 db on the master track. I can easily dial in a perfect -14 LUFS at -1.0 peak. Some day I will learn how to use Resolve. 

[mettelus]

55 minutes ago, Bass Guitar said:

It seems I cannot delete the original camera audio tracks. It deletes the video as well.

I am not familiar with Vegas, but this seems a little odd to me. I just checked a quick video on that and it seems the U and G shortcuts (Ungroup and Group?). He didn't specifically delete the audio, but scooted it well after the video. Maybe someone can chime in on that, but I assume you can delete as well.

I have shifted over to DaVinci Resolve Studio, but also work with video >4K, for which Studio is required. I am always hesitant to mention other software, since you are already familiar with Vegas (which has been around a long time). Programs once they get enough years under their belts become highly capable and the user manual's page count tends to reflect that. The integration with Sound Forge is another perk. As long as you can stack audio and zoom in, you can place the DAW audio into position before breaking the link to the original video audio.

In a sample-rate mismatch scenario, some video editors will also allow you to to fit audio between two markers (say a transient at the beginning and end of an audio track), so there are various ways to tackle that challenge as well.

Sorry for the distraction there. I guess my real point above was that most work should be done in the video editor (when possible) and anything done in a DAW needs to be done with the ability to relink that DAW work back to the video (i.e., same length).

[Bass Guitar]

2 hours ago, mettelus said:

I guess my real point above was that most work should be done in the video editor (when possible) and anything done in a DAW needs to be done with the ability to relink that DAW work back to the video (i.e., same length).

Yes exactly. Up till now all my videos were shot at gigs where I was using my backing tracks. Then all I need to do is drag the backing track into Vegas and sync up the very obvious count in. If I only have one camera this is supper easy. Three camera's took a lot more work but the audio stays synced up no problem. As I said I also have always recorded the vocals and the guitar into their own audio tracks using first a Tascam DR 40 and now it's built right in to my Zoom L8 mixer. Then I also sync those up with the video. Only trouble is you can't hear the count in very good. Only the leakage into the mikes. ( Guitar amp is miked) 

Anyhow I have lots of options once the video is shot. 

I have never used a Daw for video work. But This will be my new project where I will be adding real instruments after the fact instead of using backing tracks. No click tracks.  

[mettelus]

7 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

Only trouble is you can't hear the count in very good.

Roger that. With multiple cameras some sort of visual "clapboard" helps if those feeds are separated, and depending on the view. Are you recording those cameras stand alone, or fed into a common host? The reason I mention that is there are video plugins that will enable multiple camera capture into editors, but depending how intense that is, it could require a laptop dedicated to video only (so it won't interfere with your gigging audio at all). More stuff to lug around and worry about can be stressful though. That would also accept a monitor feed from the mixer to sync everything during recording.

Of course, as soon as I mention that OBS Studio came to mind as well... I have used that all of two times, but need to delve into that guy deeper to see what its capabilities are (especially since it is free and more and more hardware manufacturers are making drivers specific to OBS).