Herbert Chong Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Hi everyone. I shudder to think how long it's been since I have done anything music-related but I'm pretty sure the last version of Cakewalk I used was Cakewalk Pro 5 or something like that in the mid-1990s. All I remember is that embedding WAV files into WRK files was a new thing when I packed up my MIDI gear into my storage locker. I was never experienced with music and MIDI but I had fun downloading and reworking MIDI files to match my synth stack and then recording the results. Anyway, on to my question: I'm rusty on terminology so I might be using the wrong words to describe things. I have downloaded a MIDI file that seems to go on and on after the last MIDI event shown in Events view on the percussion track. It's shown by Cakewalk as the last track with a note in the track view. In the Staff view I can see some note being played over and over past that measure but there's no actual sound. Various MIDI players for this file have many minutes of silence at the end of playing and I am trying to cut it off after the last audible note has decayed. What should I be looking for so that I can have a proper fadeout and then end for MIDI players so they don't go on for minutes of silence? Attached is the MIDI file. Africa.mid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgoRr Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 14 minutes ago, Herbert Chong said: Что мне нужно искать, чтобы я мог иметь правильное затухание и затем завершение для MIDI-плееров, чтобы они не продолжали минуты тишины? You should check the "Tempo" track - are there any changes after the last note in the project, and also check the events on the "automation" lines (previously called "Envelope"), there may also be some events registered after the last note in the project. But if you say that you have some repeating notes displayed for many minutes, then you should put the cursor on the last note in the main Cakewalk window (immediately after it), and then open the "Event List" on first MIDI track. And there you will be able to see - what specific notes are registered, in what octave and to what instrument the signal is sent from this track. It happens that some notes are registered outside the working range of most instruments, and then there really will be no sound. In the "Event List" you can scroll through tracks without leaving this window - at the top in the "Track" tab, there is an option "Next Track", and in this way you can scroll through all the tracks and see where something is written after the last note, and delete everything unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Herbert Chong said: Hi everyone. I shudder to think how long it's been since I have done anything music-related but I'm pretty sure the last version of Cakewalk I used was Cakewalk Pro 5 or something like that in the mid-1990s. All I remember is that embedding WAV files into WRK files was a new thing when I packed up my MIDI gear into my storage locker. I was never experienced with music and MIDI but I had fun downloading and reworking MIDI files to match my synth stack and then recording the results. Anyway, on to my question: I'm rusty on terminology so I might be using the wrong words to describe things. I have downloaded a MIDI file that seems to go on and on after the last MIDI event shown in Events view on the percussion track. It's shown by Cakewalk as the last track with a note in the track view. In the Staff view I can see some note being played over and over past that measure but there's no actual sound. Various MIDI players for this file have many minutes of silence at the end of playing and I am trying to cut it off after the last audible note has decayed. What should I be looking for so that I can have a proper fadeout and then end for MIDI players so they don't go on for minutes of silence? Attached is the MIDI file. Africa.mid 53.36 kB · 1 download I've downloaded your midi file and can confirm the following: The last note data appears at measure 107:03:000 (Timestamp 4:24:08) On the drum/percussion track (12) the snare on note D3 starts off with a duration of 10 ticks which is about right for a snare track But this changes at measure 43 and becomes over an entire measure in length, which I would shorten to 10 ticks But at measure 107:03 where it's supposed to stop, you have a single event which lasts for 430 measures! This is why your project doesn't stop when it should. Delete it The reason you can't hear it is because at the point, the volume is being attenuated down to -INF in TTS-1 (the synth I used to test it) Hope this helps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalpwal Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 welcome back! things have changed quite some since the mid 90s, you're in for a real ride! /goodluck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 Thanks for all that replied. Now that I know what to look for, I can learn more about the current Cakewalk UI and try to edit the several bad events and fix the file. Whoever sequenced it did a good job and I'd like to keep using the file in my projects. My intent is to remember and practice using my Yamaha WX11 and WX5 to replace the melody track with the output from my VL70m. It's a stretch for someone who didn't take music classes anywhere. I've been downloading and carefully going through MIDI files to find high quality ones including music minus one files to learn from and practice with. Herb... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Herbert Chong said: try to edit the several bad events and fix the file. Couple quick thoughts on this: - After re-saving as a "Normal" .CWP (Cakewalk Project) file, go to Preferences > Project > Clock and change Ticks per Quarter to 960. - To fix the drum track, click the clip to select the whole thing, go to the Event Inspector module in the Control Bar and enter 120 (ticks) in the Duration field. This will change all the drum notes to be a 32nd duration (at 960 ppq which is a convenient length to be able to see them and differentiate them at all zoom levels and will take care of the one hyper-long event at the same time. As I'm sure you know, changing drum note durations has no audible effect because the entire sample is played as a 'one-shot' with no regard to the Note Off timing. - In addition to setting a fixed the drum note length, you might want to apply a drum map to the track by choosing New Drum Map from the Output pick list and selecting GM Drums (Complete Kit) so that the track displays in the drum pane of the PRV with kit piece names and individual mute/solo controls per drum. Edited March 9 by David Baay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, David Baay said: Couple quick thoughts on this: - After re-saving as a "Normal" .CWP (Cakewalk Project) file, go to Preferences > Project > Clock and change Ticks per Quarter to 960. - To fix the drum track, click the clip to select the whole thing, go to the Event Inspector module in the Control Bar and enter 120 (ticks) in the Duration field, and OK. This will change all the drum notes to be a 32nd duration (at 960 ppq which is a convenient length to be able to see them and differentiate them at all zoom levels and will take care of the one hyper-long event at the same time. As I'm sure you know, changing drum note durations has no audible effect because the entire sample is played as a 'one-shot' with no regard to the Note Off timing. - In addition to setting a fixed the drum note length, you might want to apply a drum map to the track by choosing New Drum Map from the Output pick list and selecting GM Drums (Complete Kit) so that the track displays in the drum pane of the PRV with kit piece names and individual mute/solo controls per drum. Ok, I tried to do step 1 but I don't see Clock as a Project preference. I wonder if the free version of Cakewalk has this? I didn't pay for my Cakewalk, just downloaded the free version and registered. For step 2 I might have known that the duration on a percussion track doesn't affect anything but it's long since vanished from my memory. Eyeballing the event list with a reminder of what to look for, I manually edited the few dozens events with really screwy durations. I've so far been doing minimal tinkering with these General MIDI files I've downloaded but I'm actually targeting either the TT1 that I found and configured for Cakewalk or my Roland SC-88VL that I recently got, or the Roland SC-55 that I bought many years ago. I understand that the TT1 is a superset of both my Roland hardware synths but there's a certain nostalgia playing with the boxes and getting them to work. I've got maybe a thousand MIDI files to sift through and spend time working on the ones where a) I can mute the lead track where I can play it using one of my wind controllers and my WX5/VL70-m combination, or b) play with it a lot to create something more like James Last/Dick Bakker sound. I want to add a MOTU Symphonic Instrument to my instruments to do b. Call me a modern day lounge lizard 8-). I think this MIDI file of Toto's "Africa" is something I can try a. Herb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 15 minutes ago, Herbert Chong said: I tried to do step 1 but I don't see Clock as a Project preference. I wonder if the free version of Cakewalk has this? Click the 'Advanced' radio button at the bottom of Preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 17 minutes ago, Herbert Chong said: there's a certain nostalgia playing with the boxes and getting them to work. I still fire up the old hardware regularly, especially the Roland D-110 that was my first MIDI synth module and on which many pre-VST projects were based. 21 minutes ago, Herbert Chong said: I can play it using one of my wind controllers and my WX5/VL70-m combination I always thought I should learn to play a breath controller but never got to it, and would struggle to learn breath control at this late date I'm afraid. A lot of my projects have wind/brass accompaniment, and a lot of solo piano works could use some. Maybe we can do a little collaboration to help you re-acquaint yourself with Sonar. Here's an example (I've been told I need to give time for my soloist to breath 😜) : https://www.bandlab.com/post/89b09300-f6f9-e811-9f2a-00155d77cb96 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 On 3/9/2025 at 2:39 PM, David Baay said: Click the 'Advanced' radio button at the bottom of Preferences. that must have been it. i definitely didn't see it when i wrote this but eventually i did create some projects where its visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 On 3/9/2025 at 3:02 PM, David Baay said: I still fire up the old hardware regularly, especially the Roland D-110 that was my first MIDI synth module and on which many pre-VST projects were based. I always thought I should learn to play a breath controller but never got to it, and would struggle to learn breath control at this late date I'm afraid. A lot of my projects have wind/brass accompaniment, and a lot of solo piano works could use some. Maybe we can do a little collaboration to help you re-acquaint yourself with Sonar. Here's an example (I've been told I need to give time for my soloist to breath 😜) : https://www.bandlab.com/post/89b09300-f6f9-e811-9f2a-00155d77cb96 i'm using just the free Cakewalk so i don't know how much different it is from Sonar. what i do know is that i have installed TTS-1 following various instructions and some downloading and i also have Kontakt Player installed. a long time ago when Compuserve MIDI Forum was still a going concernt i mostly downloaded other people's files and looked for the good performances of pieces that i liked and then orchestrated them using my set of synths. looking over my file archive i mostly stopped downloading in 1994. the only hardware from back then i don't intend to sell is my WX11/VL70-m but I've also upgraded from the WX11 to a WX5. what i am settling down with for hardware is a pair of Roland SC-88VL, Yamaha VL70-m/MU-80 combo for some things, and a E-Mu Virtuoso 2000 with its two orchestral ROM and the Protozoa ROM. i probably will break out my Roland M120 mixer at some point but for now i am using a very inexpensive passive mixer because only part of my gear is out of storage. the next interesting problem i am running into right now is looking for an instrument file that defines the specific set of ROM i have inside the Virtuoso 2000. that's another topic will begin if i can't find an answer here. i got it used and it's just the tone generator, the power cable, and the manual. it seems from searching that it should have come with Cakewalk instrument files. i searched the Cakewalk installed emu.ins file and although it has a Virtuoso 2000, it is with the Composer ROM and doesn't include the three ROM that i actually have inside. i suppose i could map the patches i want into User1-4 but that sounds like a very big job. Herb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, Herbert Chong said: what i am settling down with for hardware is . . . a E-Mu Virtuoso 2000 with its two orchestral ROM and the Protozoa ROM. the next interesting problem i am running into right now is looking for an instrument file that defines the specific set of ROM i have inside the Virtuoso 2000. that's another topic will begin if i can't find an answer here. A member of one of the old E-Mu Yahoo Groups made an *.ins file available that included all the SIMMs. I am 100% sure that file is still available. IIRC it's a simple matter of either just deleting the info for the SIMMS you don't own or importing the banks you own. If you have custom preset banks (user memory), there were some user developed utilities that will output *.ins files with those banks so you don't have to type in all the names. I will look for a currently available source for the compiled bank file. P2k_All.ins Edited March 27 by User 905133 added file; fixed typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 (edited) i have been hunting all over for something like this. the keywords needed in Google really brought up bizarre things. thanks so much. i also have the Advanced Orchestral ROM on its way to me to fully populate all of the ROM banks. it will be interesting playing with the classic Proteus sounds i liked and have access to them on my current setup. the 1+Orchestral and 2 were my go to synths once i started working on files intended for my own enjoyment. i won't delete anything from the definition but instead will create a new instrument with just my ROMs installed. this way if i get ambitious and purchase a second Proteus 2000 series synth i won't have lost anything. i was getting close though. only needed the MSB for the Advanced Orchestral ROM. i had all the preset definitions. that was pretty easy actually. and the next big quest? how to upgrade the firmware from 1.21 to 2.26. i need to put the 2000 into firmware update mode so i will be searching for that. Herb... On 3/27/2025 at 11:31 AM, User 905133 said: A member of one of the old E-Mu Yahoo Groups made an *.ins file available that included all the SIMMs. I am 100% sure that file is still available. IIRC it's a simple matter of either just deleting the info for the SIMMS you don't own or importing the banks you own. If you have custom preset banks (user memory), there were some user developed utilities that will output *.ins files with those banks so you don't have to type in all the names. I will look for a currently available source for the compiled bank file. P2k_All.ins 171.42 kB · 1 download Edited March 28 by Herbert Chong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 23 minutes ago, Herbert Chong said: how to upgrade the firmware from 1.21 to 2.26. i need to put the 2000 into firmware update mode so i will be searching for that. I haven't used it since he first made it available, but it was rock solid back then and I have seen others referring it more recently: Ray Bellis' Firmware Updater Tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Chong Posted Sunday at 11:40 AM Author Share Posted Sunday at 11:40 AM On 3/28/2025 at 12:06 PM, User 905133 said: I haven't used it since he first made it available, but it was rock solid back then and I have seen others referring it more recently: Ray Bellis' Firmware Updater Tool turns out there was a latency problem with one of my MIDI interfaces but eventually i did get it updated. Herb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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