sjoens Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) This was my last post but I think it explains things better. Muting notes and hiding muted notes are 2 different things for sure. Each one has some inconsistencies, tho. 1. Muting and unmuting notes between views works as expected in X1 so I would expect it to work in SPlat and CbB but it does not. Maybe this feature was removed or broken? 2. The CbB's outdated documentation's Alt+right-click with Smart tool to mute notes works in X1 thru SPlat's PRV & TV Notes mode but not in CbB. Was this feature changed? Yes. In CbB Shift+right-click mutes notes in PRV but not in TV Notes mode so there's no way to mute them in TV Notes mode with Smart tool. Was this feature damaged when it was changed? Is Sonar the same? 3. How does Hide Muted Clips (HMC) function work? When you select HMC from the PRV > View menu and mute an entire clip in TV with K, the PRV notes disappear and reappear when it is unselected as expected. **However, it does not work when you select the function from the TV > MIDI menu OR use the Mute tool.** Is that by design? 4. Muted MIDI notes should be a solid color (you can change the color in Preferences). They are only solid when muted with the Mute tool in TV Clips mode. When you mute a note in PRV or TV Notes mode, they disappear with a faint outline and there is no way to make them solid. Why should that be different? AFAInowCT this behavior has nothing to do with the HMC function and selecting or deselecting it either way changes nothing. Is that right? 5. Because of all this I can't find anyway to show PRV muted notes in a solid color within PRV. Switching to TV just to mute some notes... so I can still see them... is a poor work flow. Is that by design? Many more questions I have but these are the basics. Edited February 13 by sjoens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, sjoens said: 1. With Hide Muted Clips disabled, muting clips turns notes white in Track View but not in PRV. In both CbB and Sonar with the Mercury [Classic] theme, they turn medium gray in both views when selected and white when de-selected. 1 hour ago, sjoens said: When muting notes in PRV, notes turn invisible with a dotted outline whether or not Hide Muted Clips is enabled or disabled. On light colored PRV backgrounds notes are completely invisible and look deleted. It's true, the outlines of de-selected, muted notes in the PRV are nearly invisible in Sonar. They were just slightly bolder/darker in CbB and more visible. And I seem to recall, they were clearer in earlier versions, but that may just have been due to my younger eyes seeing better or lower monitor resolution using fatter pixels. 1 hour ago, sjoens said: 5. Highlighting and muting a note both turn it white which could be confusing. This must be theme--dependent. In Mercury [Classic] notes are darker when selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, David Baay said: This must be theme--dependent. In Mercury [Classic] notes are darker when selected. No. They are default colors here. I said "white" because they "look" lighter in dark themes where there's more contrast. But thanks for that because PRV muted notes color can be changed in Preferences and Theme Editor (default is e9e9e9), tho I see nothing for selected notes. Of course this means, , if there's no Theme Editor (Sonar!), they will both remain "white" (or some whiter shade of gray). 1 hour ago, David Baay said: In both CbB and Sonar with the Mercury [Classic] theme, they turn medium gray in both views when selected and white when de-selected. I see that too but only when using the Mute tool in TV Clips mode will they also show color simultaneously in PRV. This is the only way muted PRV notes will be nonhidden on my system. As mentioned, they also cannot be unmuted in PRV. However, the opposite is not true. When a note is muted in PRV, it will not show as muted in TV Clips mode, as it should. Only when you switch to Notes mode will it show. When the Mute tool is used in PRV or TV Notes mode, notes stay hidden... whereas only an hour ago they did show color when it was used in TV Notes mode. I tested in 3 different theme/color combos. Even the Smart tool Alt+right-click worked in TV Notes mode earlier today but now doesn't. Something's definitely going on with Mute routines. Edited February 10 by sjoens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, sjoens said: As mentioned, they also cannot be unmuted in PRV. However, the opposite is not true. When a note is muted in PRV, it will not show as muted in TV Clips mode, as it should. Only when you switch to Notes mode will it show. That's because clip muting and note muting are two different mechanisms. Clearly since clips are not accessible from the PRV, they cannot be unmuted from the PRV, but notes are accessible from the TV. 7 hours ago, sjoens said: When the Mute tool is used in PRV or TV Notes mode, notes stay hidden... whereas only an hour ago they did show color when it was used in TV Notes mode. I tested in 3 different theme/color combos. Even the Smart tool Alt+right-click worked in TV Notes mode earlier today but now doesn't. Something's definitely going on with Mute routines. I suspect this has to do with the various possible combinations of muting, selection, PRV visibility and PRV focus. You'll need to give a very specific example that specifies all these elements to demonstrate whether there's an actual issue or it just isn't working as you would expect/prefer. A demo project with specific config settings and steps to reproduce a problematic would be helpful. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement of the design logic and presentation, but so far I haven't seen anything described that is clearly not working as designed other than the poor visibility of muted notes and possibly the conditions under which you can and can't use Alt+right-click to mute notes. EDIT: I should add that there isn't much point in dicussing these behaviors with reference to CbB as its development is largely frozen. But to the extent that Sonar works and looks the same, I'm happy to help figure out whether there's something that actually needs to be fixed. Edited February 10 by David Baay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 (edited) I don't know if Sonar exhibits the same behavior but it's clearly broken in CbB. I rewrote the OP hoping to explain better. Edited February 11 by sjoens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 19 hours ago, sjoens said: rewrote the OP hoping to explain better. Hmmm.... okay. A couple of things: I see now you're talking about Region Muting clips (a.k.a. Mute by Time) in the TV as opposed to muting notes individually in PRV mode of the TV or muting whole clips. But that doesn't really change things. The bottom line is that clip-muting (whether whole clips or regions) and note-muting are two different methods of muting MIDI and they are not mutually exlusive. If you mute a note(s) both ways, you have to unmute it both ways to have it become fully visible and audible. I think that explains your 'unexpected' cases (EDIT: other than the 'hard to see outline' issue which I agree needs to be addressed). You're expecting the two methods to use the same mechanism and to display the same, and they're not by design. Edited February 11 by David Baay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjoens Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) (moved to 1st post) Edited February 13 by sjoens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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