feature request? Automation Envelope Editing

[sjoens]

Is there a way to...

1. Stretch or shrink automation envelopes like Ctrl+Shift+drag does for clips?

2. Reduce envelope nodes after recording them?

Too many nodes:  Top & bottom nodes for each rise & fall are all that's needed.

[Promidi]

1 hour ago, sjoens said:

Is there a way to...

1. Stretch or shrink automation envelopes like Ctrl+Shift+drag does for clips?

2. Reduce envelope nodes after recording them?

Too many nodes:  Top & bottom nodes for each rise & fall are all that's needed.
 

Not at this time.

A transform tool for envelope nodes would help with the first item.

[jimlynch22]

23 hours ago, sjoens said:

Is there a way to...

1. Stretch or shrink automation envelopes like Ctrl+Shift+drag does for clips?

2. Reduce envelope nodes after recording them?

Too many nodes:  Top & bottom nodes for each rise & fall are all that's needed.

 

There is ANY_THIN.CAL that says it will reduce any controller.

[Promidi]

12 minutes ago, jimlynch22 said:

There is ANY_THIN.CAL that says it will reduce any controller.

That script only works on MIDI CC events.  It does not work on Automation Nodes.

[Amberwolf]

And unfortunately while there is an option to convert MIDI to shapes (automation) there isn't a direct function to do the reverse (although I can think of a convoluted way to manage it, i don't know how well it would work). 

[Promidi]

20 minutes ago, Amberwolf said:

And unfortunately while there is an option to convert MIDI to shapes (automation) there isn't a direct function to do the reverse (although I can think of a convoluted way to manage it, i don't know how well it would work). 

This is why I think we could benefit from a Transform Tool for automation nodes like we have for MIDI events.  

An automation node smoothing tool would be handy too.   In fact, I think, many automation node editing tools could be useful - like vertical and horizontal flip and scale using a chosen node as the anchor point, etc.   I have made CAL scripts and Studioware panels to do these for Midi events.  However, the CAL command “forEachEvent” ignores selected automation nodes.

[Amberwolf]

Yeah, unfortunately automation editing has felt pretty primitive since it's original implementation, up to the old version I use (don't know what it's like nowadays, but apparently still missing "required" stuff for my purposes, based on threads like this one). 

Pardon the probable OTness below; I'll remove it if it's not wanted in this thread.  It's possible that some of the things below are different in newer versions. 

 

I use a lot of it, and would use more if I could change a number of things about it's workflow and editing tools, as well as adding things like you're talking about.   

Some things I want to do are easier to use MIDI CCs, then convert them to shapes.  I wish I could then also copy or move them to audio tracks I want them on directly, but at least in my old version that's not an operation that works.   

I'd love the option to copy/paste envelopes regardless of the source or destination type, and to have a "library" I could save shapes to, rather than having to constantly waste huge amounts of time redrawing the same things.  It would be available to any project, as well as within that project in anywhere that automation can exist, regardless of original source or new destination.   

 

Some things are not easily possible to even draw, much less edit, especially with some types of tempo-synced effect control "waveforms".  For instance, if you want to have an automation waveform with a period greater than 1 measure, without manually drawing every part of a curve, etc., point by point, then copy/pasting that repeatedly.  

 

Being unable to constrain values is also problematic (as it is when drawing MIDI CC data). 

 

Even some of the tools that do work on automation are...difficult to work with.  For instance, youc an select and nudge them around, but you must reselect the automation over and over again, as it is deselected upon every nudge.

 

 

 

(semi-OT: I used to do 3D modeling and animation in an ancient Lightwave3D version, and that used automation envelopes for a lot of things.  It's tools were no better, and just as tedious to use...so I did as little of it as I could.  It's been so long I don't recall for sure but I think it had some selection methods that were easier/better.   I'm sure they've improved it since then, based on the images I get in a websearch just now, but without using it from then and a newer version I couldn't say for sure. )

Edited February 1 by Amberwolf

[Promidi]

12 minutes ago, Amberwolf said:

Yeah, unfortunately automation editing has felt pretty primitive since it's original implementation, up to the old version I use (don't know what it's like nowadays, but apparently still missing "required" stuff for my purposes, based on threads like this one).

This is really why I do not use automation nodes unless I have to.

For any MIDI editing, I stick to using the controller lane exclusively.  I hardly ever touch automation nodes.  The only time I would use automation nodes is for those plugins that do not allow CCs to be mapped to parameters (Massive X, criminally, being one such synth).

My Studioware Panels allow CC/Wheel and Note event editing in a way that far surpasses what comes natively with Cakewalk.

I only wish the Bakers would bring back editing Studioware Panels and (updated) CAL scripts in Sonar 2025.  Maybe not enough people would actually use them to justify the effort.