Snap settings seem to behave as if the snapping intensity is at maximum at all times

[Butterfield Science]

This manifests as being unable to snap a clip to the end of another if there is a clip on a different track with a vaguely similar position - it will instantly magnetise to that, as does the play head. I also cannot place the play head anywhere other than the end or start of a clip, with the aforementioned caveat, when snapping is enabled due to the maximum snapping.
I only have "snap to clips" ticked in the snapping preferences menu, and no grid enabled in this scenario, and I do click "apply" after changing a setting there. I have the landmarks button and snap button enabled only.
Enabling the grid sometimes makes it work properly, but I don't want to snap to the grid, and often I end up disabling snapping and zooming in to sample level just to line up two clips, particularly when the clip is near to (but not on) the grid, which is ridiculous.
Why is the snapping intensity not changing other than in the settings menu?
 

Edited Tuesday at 06:59 PM by Butterfield Science

[David Baay]

5 hours ago, Butterfield Science said:

This manifests as being unable to snap a clip to the end of another if there is a clip on a different track with a vaguely similar position

Snapping clips to other clips isn't a common workflow for me but I just checked it out and am not seeing any problems. Can you link a simple project with steps to reproduce the issue?

EDIT: That said, I do see what you mean about the intensity always being maxed. Lower intensity is working as expected for notes in the PRV, but not for clips in the track view. I usually have snap at or near maximum and just disable it completely when I want to make a fine adjustement, so hadn't really noticed.

Edited yesterday at 12:31 AM by David Baay

[Butterfield Science]

On 1/29/2025 at 12:21 AM, David Baay said:

Snapping clips to other clips isn't a common workflow for me but I just checked it out and am not seeing any problems. Can you link a simple project with steps to reproduce the issue?

EDIT: That said, I do see what you mean about the intensity always being maxed. Lower intensity is working as expected for notes in the PRV, but not for clips in the track view. I usually have snap at or near maximum and just disable it completely when I want to make a fine adjustement, so hadn't really noticed.

It wouldn't be that bad if the intensity was just maxed, it's the fact it also skips past dozens of clips, leaving it impossible to line up two clips unless cakewalk happens to choose the same clip as the one I wanted to snap with.
I just replicated the arrangement of clips in a new project, and with identical settings, the snapping works properly!
I thought maybe it was snapping to volume envelope nodes above all else, but it misses them if I add more (and as in the video I attach, this is with only clip snapping turned on - automation nodes is unticked.)
Loaded my old project again, and even the play head - the ghost version before you place it as well - skips past 10 clips and only snaps when it feels like it.

Edited 6 hours ago by Butterfield Science

[David Baay]

4 hours ago, Butterfield Science said:

It wouldn't be that bad if the intensity was just maxed, it's the fact it also skips past dozens of clips

I can't repro that problem; will need to see a project that does it.

 

[Butterfield Science]

Here's the project in the video. It's mostly just simple assembling of mix stems. Some parts do snap to the right place, but you should find a section with the strange behaviour easily enough.

snapping issue.cwp

[David Baay]

Well this is interesting... I can't replicate either problem in this project. Clips are moving smoothly between other clip landmarks, and snapping to every candidate as expected everywhere I tried.

EDIT: I take that back. Movement is still behaving like snap intensity is maxed, but I am able to hit every landmark so far.

Keep in mind that it matters where you grab a clip. If you grab in the left haf, you're snapping the clip's start to landmarks, and if you grab in the right half, you're snapping the end. And if you grab a group, it's the start and end of the group that snaps.

Edited yesterday at 04:27 PM by David Baay

[Butterfield Science]

Well that's odd. As I said, I can't get there from a new project just by arranging the clips into the formation seen in the video either. Something else has happened in the project to create this, but seemingly only on my system.

I did briefly think it was because I inadvertently overlapped them by one sample when arranging them manually, but separating them didn't allow snapping again, and anyway the fact I was arranging them manually at that point would mean the bug was caused by itself, which would be a paradox.

Edited yesterday at 04:43 PM by Butterfield Science

[David Baay]

Okay, I was able to repro issues attempting to snap the clip at bar 86 in track 12 to some of the clips in track 11. I haven't completely figured out what's going on, but deleting tracks 3-5 got it working. Seems to be some linkage/interaction there, but I'm not immediately seeing it.

[sjoens]

19 hours ago, Butterfield Science said:

(..................just worked out that the clips I strung together manually need to each be moved by one sample so they'll stay in sync. AAAAAA)

Curious why not use groove clip looping? Once you snap the original (bounced) clip's ends at the right places just drag it out as far as you need helps avoid that issue.

[Helios.G]

7 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Curious why not use groove clip looping? Once you snap the original (bounced) clip's ends at the right places just drag it out as far as you need helps avoid that issue.

Or copy control D until you have as many as you need.

[msmcleod]

From the help:

Magnetic snap. Cakewalk’s snap grid has an option called magnetic snap. This means that when you’re dragging the boundary of an object, you can move the boundary freely until the boundary gets within a certain number of ticks from the snap target. The closer the object gets to the snap target, the more strongly the object is pulled to the target. You can set the strength of magnetic snap to low, medium, high, or off. Note that if you are zoomed out a certain amount, the time boundary around the snap target will appear to be quite small, and you might think that the snap grid is not functioning. If this is the case, zoom in closer to enhance your editing experience. If you’re dragging a whole clip, magnetic snap is not in effect.

[Butterfield Science]

10 hours ago, msmcleod said:

From the help:

Magnetic snap. Cakewalk’s snap grid has an option called magnetic snap. This means that when you’re dragging the boundary of an object, you can move the boundary freely until the boundary gets within a certain number of ticks from the snap target. The closer the object gets to the snap target, the more strongly the object is pulled to the target. You can set the strength of magnetic snap to low, medium, high, or off. Note that if you are zoomed out a certain amount, the time boundary around the snap target will appear to be quite small, and you might think that the snap grid is not functioning. If this is the case, zoom in closer to enhance your editing experience. If you’re dragging a whole clip, magnetic snap is not in effect.

I wasn't describing moving the boundary of a clip. The problem I describe also happens regardless of zoom level.
Edit: Oh, you're saying clip dragging was never affected by the snap strength? Then why is is toggled by the same button? And why is my snapping behaving as in my video  - missing out loads of things it should be snapping to?

Edited 5 hours ago by Butterfield Science

[David Baay]

5 minutes ago, Butterfield Science said:

I wasn't describing moving the boundary of a clip. The problem I describe also happens regardless of zoom level.

I tested every major version back to Sonar 7, and it appears the lowered magnetic strength/intensity has only ever applied to slip-editing clip boundaries and not to moving clips in the track view. This would be clearer if the documentation specifically mentioned slip-editing since moving a clip does move its boundary. In any case, like you, I find the behavior unexpected. IMHO, moving clips with reduced intensity should behave the same as moving notes and other events in the PRV. But at this point it's a feature request, as it was apparently never intended to work that way for clips.