Selecting and Sliding Midi Notes

[Sam Stalos]

Using Windows 11 and Cakewalk-BandLab Version 2024 .07 Build 108.

I'm having trouble selecting midi notes/chords and moving those elements using the Slide command.

I noticed that the midi track(s) themselvers had to be designated as "notes" verses "clips" in the Edit Filter command box, as shown in photo #2. Fine.

Under the Select Menu, I deselected all the default values such as "Select Events with Sections," "Select Sections with Time Ruler," etc. I'm not sure this was necessary.

Heretofore, one would highlight the track itself in which the midi notes/chords appeared, place the Time Ruler at the start of notes/chords one wanted to effect, go to the Edit Menu, choose the Select command, and then choose From = Now, Thru=Now etc.. That would highlight all the notes/chords along that track that one wished to move with a single entry in the Slide command. But I could not get that sequence to select/highlight any midi notes.

The only way I've been able to figure out how to select and then move midi notes/chords is to first select the "All" command under the "Select" menu, and then select the From=Now command. Although it seems backward to first select All and then narrow the selection, this sequence will highlight all of the midi notes (to the left or right) on that track so that one could then "Slide" accordingly.

Yes, I can highlight/select all of the notes I wish to effect by holding down the left mouse button (after choosing the Select Cursor Icon) and sliding the cursor over the many bars of notes I which to change, but that is a tedious and iffy procedure. 

Am I missing something?  

[sjoens]

Easiest way is in Track View.

1. Isolate the clip section you want moved.

2. Select it and go to Process>Slide... and chose how & where to move it:

Click OK:

Edited Thursday at 08:10 AM by sjoens

[Sam Stalos]

Hi sjones, 

Therein lies the rub. What you're suggesting doesn't work on my setup, which is Win 11 and CBL Version 2024.07. I work offline as much as possible because Microsoft will impose a system change and then nothing works until they make another change, or I figure out how to work around their revisions.

I'm now guessing there's been a major change in the way CBL selects, moves and modifies midi. In you kind response, you selected to move a midi clip, but I'm moving midi notes, chords and many times the entire score on that track (as seen in the View Staff  View, while operating in the Track View as you suggested).

Why? Because there's a timing error when a conversion is made from audio to midi. (By the way, I used CBL conversion process for this test.) Some notes will be off by 331 ticks, some off by 54 ticks, some off by 405 ticks, etc. So the exercise involves moving all or some of the notes by ticks and sliding all the other notes (or the entire track) to the right accordingly. And when you actually right-click on that low A as shown in the score, the timing value will off by a completely different number of a ticks. 

Actually, I can grasp the reason for all of these timing errors because the conversion process from audio (.wav) to midi is loaded with assumptions. The conversion programs focus on pitches, hence Melodyne, and the timing difference between note pitches is based on some predetermined values (which are never specified in advance), such at time signatures and tempi. I've even tested the conversion process using some of the AI conversion programs now available, and the same imprecissions in timing are there. So the timing errors are to be expected. Now the problem comes how to correct them.

I've made the following tests. Let me know if your system is the same.

The attached photo titled # 1 shows the Timing Bar sitting at Measure 21:01:000 in the readout at the top of the Track View, while the readout on the Staff View indicates 21:03:480. If you were to right click on that low A2 at the start of Measure 21, you would see its timing is at 20:03:932, as shown in photo titled #5.

But the first problem I ran into was the problem of selecting midi notes...so I could adjust their timing...without right clicking each midi note in the entire score. And that brought me to the problem of the Edit-Select function.

Photo titled # 2 shows the beginning of the selection problem. If you leave the Timing Bar where it shows on Measure 21:01:000, and open the Edit-Select menu, then click From=Now, one would expect all the notes to the right of the Timing Bar to be selected. But if you do that, nothing happens, i.e. nothing is selected...as shown in photo titled #2.

What I discovered is that you have to first choose the Edit-Select-ALL function, in which case all the notes on the track are highlighted (selected). See photo titled # 3.

After all notes are selected/highlighted, THEN one can choose the From=Now command, and all of the notes to the right of the Timing Bar will be selected, and all notes to the left of the Timing Bar will be deselcted.  See photo titled # 4.

Now you can use the Process-Slide function to move the highlighted notes X number of clicks.

Assuming your CBL setup moves midi notes (not clips) the same, I think I've found a "workaround",,, except for the following problems:

If you select the Move Tool Icon (+), then highlight a note, a chord or a measure, you cannot move those selected notes. In other words, the Move Tool does not work with selected midi notes...or even unselected midi notes. See photo titled #7. For example, you're not going to be able to move that highlighted middle C anywhere using the Move Icon Tool.

The same thing applies to the Edit Tool Icon (wrench). When I highlighted a midi note, the Edit Icon tool didn't allow for any adjustment I could see. See photo titled #8.

It may be that the Move and Edit Icon tools were made for adjusting  .wav notes only, or perhaps Piano Roll View midi symbols only. If that's the case, please let me know.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Sam Stalos
photos

[Sock Monkey]

Sorry I can’t only say that I’ve never used the notation view and most of everything you are seeing possibly works well in the PRV.

There’s been thousands of comments about how bad Sonars Notation view is. It is very old coding that I don’t think had seen any improvement for a few decades. Possibly because they have moved on to focusing on modern usage which involves people with no real knowledge of music theory etc. 

I actually can read notation because I have needed to learn years ago. But I only have worked in event lists and Piano views for my 40 years of midi editing. It’always does what I tell it to do. And Sonar by far has the best midi editing. 

 

[David Baay]

Step Sequencer clip? You can’t move part of an SS clip.

[sjoens]

On 1/22/2025 at 3:28 PM, Sam Stalos said:

But I could not get that sequence to select/highlight any midi notes.

It can be done but using the Edit From & Thru method seems clunky if not convoluted and didn't always work as expected for me.

Selecting notes is best done using the Select Module, dragging thru the Time Ruler, or clicking on an Arranger section.

The Move and Edit Tools don't work in Staff View.  Staff tools are available by right-clicking anywhere in the Staff window or the Process menu.

In Staff View with Smart Tool selected:
1. Drag the mouse thru the Staff View Time Ruler or right-click and drag over notes to select them
2. Right-click the Staff window and select Slide
3. Make sure you select "Events in Tracks" or nothing will move
4. Enter your choices and click OK

Clear selections by clicking on the clef symbol.  If you choose minute values you won't see any notes move in Staff View but you will in PRV.

Edited 8 hours ago by sjoens

[57Gregy]

In #1, the Staff view timing number isn't where the note is; it's where the cursor left the screen.
 

[57Gregy]

In #5 Staff View, did you play in the highlighted note or click it in?

[Promidi]

I am so glad I do all my MIDI editing in the PRV.  

[sjoens]

I don't think Staff View was ever meant for real editing but there are a few things it can do.... like print basic sheet music. 😊

[Promidi]

16 minutes ago, sjoens said:

I don't think Staff View was ever meant for real editing but there are a few things it can do.... like print basic sheet music. 😊

.....and enter lyrics that are synced to the notes.....  (my only use for the staff view for 30 years)

[Chaps]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

I am so glad I do all my MIDI editing in the PRV.  

Ditto. It is so much more flexible and intuitive than the staff view, especially when it comes to timing and volume of individual notes.