Jerry Gerber Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) I've been working in Cakewalk since Cakewalk for DOS in the early 1990s. I continued with nearly every upgrade through Sonar and am now running Cakewalk by Bandlab (the free version) for several years. It's long been my DAW of choice even after using Digital Performer and trying Pro Tools and Reaper. Can someone tell me the differences between Cakewalk by Bandlab and the new Sonar? It's more out of curiosity as I don't buy into the subscription model for software. Bandlab is losing customers in my opinion by not offering Sonar in both a subscription and non-subscription model. Nevertheless I am interested in what new features Sonar has that Cakewalk by Bandlab does not. Thanks, Jerry https://www.jerrygerber.com https://www.youtube.com/@astromusicvideo Edited January 21 by Jerry Gerber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Maybe this list / mini guide to new features will help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Gerber Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Great, that helps, thanks. If and when Bandlab decides to offer Sonar on a non-subscription basis, (many software companies have an option to buy the software or subscribe) then I will consider upgrading. Otherwise count me out (a loyal customer since 1991). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor55 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 7 hours ago, Jerry Gerber said: Great, that helps, thanks. If and when Bandlab decides to offer Sonar on a non-subscription basis, (many software companies have an option to buy the software or subscribe) then I will consider upgrading. Otherwise count me out (a loyal customer since 1991). I too am a loyal customer since 1991 (Cakewalk for DOS). It occurred to me last September we will probably never see anything beyond a subscription model for SONAR. I think it's a great program as it stands today and decided go for it. I am not regretful. In my estimation, the subscription isn't more expensive than the cost of upgrading to newer releases every year or 18 months. Admittedly, subscribers are beholden to the company for as long as they use the product and can't opt out without saying goodbye to SONAR forever. But the fact we've both been using the product for well over 30 years strongly suggests we're not the type to jump ship anyway. Of course, I don't make a living as a record producer using SONAR (or anything else). If I did, the considerations would be vastly different. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Monkey Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Difference between Sonar and Cakewalk! Sonar is supported and has seen many enhancements. There’s no nag screen telling you to log in. Cakewalk will fade away someday so investing your time in creating projects that will someday become inaccessible to you is not a good idea. So to me it’s a simple concept. Forget Cakewalk, it a dead duck! Use Sonar as well as find and learn another Daw that you like and can port your projects over to. That way you have a plan B. Hopefully Sonar will carry on and become affordable but I am insecure about Sonar’s future at this point. The majority of long time users have all moved away from it now that it is subscription based. Sad. Edited January 22 by Sock Monkey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickddd Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said: The majority of long time users have all moved away from now that it is subscription based. Oh that's terrible! Question: is this a fact or conjecture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Faughey Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I think they are doing a great job with the new Sonar. For me the workflow is on point. I have used a few other DAW’s, but I always quickly returned to cakewalk (now Sonar) I was taught on ProTools, but the constant updates and pricing is insane. Studio One is the closest to Cakewalk I have found. Luna looks amazing, but the workflow is not quite there yet for me. So, for me, spending a few bucks on Sonar is not that big of a deal. and i hope they start to add a bit more eye candy.. As for the future, I am hopeful..LOL I said the same thing with Gibson…. I would have felt a bit better if they would have had some sort of footprint at NAMM this year, but they are so lacking in social media I have no idea if they are doing anything. The DAW is really fantastic, and they are missing a huge opportunity in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Gerber Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sock Monkey said: Difference between Sonar and Cakewalk! Sonar is supported and has seen many enhancements. There’s no nag screen telling you to log in. Cakewalk will fade away someday so investing your time in creating projects that will someday become inaccessible to you is not a good idea. So to me it’s a simple concept. Forget Cakewalk, it a dead duck! Use Sonar as well as find and learn another Daw that you like and can port your projects over to. That way you have a plan B. Hopefully Sonar will carry on and become affordable but I am insecure about Sonar’s future at this point. The majority of long time users have all moved away from it now that it is subscription based. Sad. Sonar will be a dead duck too if they are losing long time customers. Cakewalk is fine, yeah, it will fade away one day, and so will you , I and everything else. I've been using Cakewalk since 1991. Your "simple concept" may apply to you, but not to everyone. You should be insecure about an app that is available only by subscription. Jerry https://www.jerrygerber.com https://www.youtube.com/@astromusicvideo Edited January 22 by Jerry Gerber 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Monkey Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Yes I am hopeful too as Sonar is the king of midi editing. It is the only Daw Im aware of that has a Smart tool. There’s also track pane in the PVR, Drag and drop tempo extraction and countless other features that other Daw’s don’t have. But looking out there in the music community there no mention of Sonar and even less of Next. I like Next an hopefully it will grow. Notice nobody makes YouTubes about Sonar or Next. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 hours ago, Rickddd said: Oh that's terrible! Question: is this a fact or conjecture? It's pure conjecture. I am sure SOME users have jumped ship but to say the MAJORITY of them have is totally disingenuous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB9 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) We should feel insecure that without financial support, a business entity will not have the means to sustain great support/improvement staff that needs money to live on. While I would prefer a purchase (licensing) model, the rent model at least works. The fact that Bandlab has gone from a free platform to a fee system, should add to the sustainability of the product. And to be really technical, even a purchase option is no guarantee as operating systems can change over time and there can be a time when the purchased product has serious glitches with newer operating systems, plugins, etc. So, I look at the history with Bandlab. First, Bandlab saved Cakewalk and offered it free for years. Was that sustainable when it was free? No! Did people complain? Hardly anyone complained when it was free even though it was not sustainable. Like in every good contract, if there are not benefits to both parties, it will not last very long. Now that the company has decided what they think is sustainable, some people are complaining because they do not like subscriptions. That is understandable. But it is certainly no less a sustainable product than when it was offered for free. As a long time user since the 90s, and with many files from decades ago that I can open in Sonar, and given the low fee for the subscription, I just cannot complain. Add on top of that this great forum and staff people. There are probably a lot of happy users that just do not post at all. Edited January 22 by AB9 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) We will never know. I believe the Gibson dump scattered many (rightfully pissed off) users and the free (for a time) Bandlab version probably brought some back but I would suspect not many. Has the Sonar rental plan got more back? I doubt it but they probably brought in new users and that's what more important. Most people once pissed off rarely return to a product if they can at all avoid it. I seriously doubt Bandlab will ever tell us the bottom line but being tied to Bandlab gives them some leverage. I am not sure Bandlab expects Sonar to be profitable standalone. In the end, Sonar (and CbB) work well and if it's worth it to you, rent it. Has anyone list out the specific differences outside of the visuals? I know they've added some new features. Edited Saturday at 04:15 PM by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Gerber Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, AB9 said: We should feel insecure that without financial support, a business entity will not have the means to sustain great support/improvement staff that needs money to live on. While I would prefer a purchase (licensing) model, the rent model at least works. The fact that Bandlab has gone from a free platform to a fee system, should add to the sustainability of the product. And to be really technical, even a purchase option is no guarantee as operating systems can change over time and there can be a time when the purchased product has serious glitches with newer operating systems, plugins, etc. So, I look at the history with Bandlab. First, Bandlab saved Cakewalk and offered it free for years. Was that sustainable when it was free? No! Did people complain? Hardly anyone complained when it was free even though it was not sustainable. Like in every good contract, if there are not benefits to both parties, it will not last very long. Now that the company has decided what they think is sustainable, some people are complaining because they do not like subscriptions. That is understandable. But it is certainly no less a sustainable product than when it was offered for free. As a long time user since the 90s, and with many files from decades ago that I can open in Sonar, and given the low fee for the subscription, I just cannot complain. Add on top of that this great forum and staff people. There are probably a lot of happy users that just do not post at all. True, a company has to make money to keep developing its software, of course. I buy software from a lot of companies, and many have both a subscription model and a traditional model of paying when you want to upgrade. Seems to me that's the best of both worlds for both software company and end-user. I've supported Cakewalk for decades as it's the best DAW ever made. Yes, I've tried numerous others but I've always come back to Cakewalk. I've produced 12 symphonies, 17 albums, 11 soundtracks and countless short works in Cakewalk, I really love the program and wouldn't use another DAW unless I was forced to. I only ask that Bandlab consider offering the software as BOTH subscription and purchase models. In the meantime I am content using Cakewalk by Bandlab as it does everything (and more) that I need it to do. If Sonar is offered non-subscription I'd certainly take a serious look at purchasing it. Jerry Astrophotographic Music Videos Edited January 23 by Jerry Gerber 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promidi Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) In Sonar 2025, MIDI Chase includes Aftertouch Events. In CbB, MIDI Chase does not includes Aftertouch Events. Edited January 23 by Promidi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 8 hours ago, Terry Kelley said: We will never know. I believe the Gibson dump scattered many (rightfully pissed off) users and the free (for a time) Bandlab version probably brought some back but I would suspect not many. Has the Sonar rental plan got more back? I doubt it but they probably brought in new users and that's what more important. Most people once pissed off rarely return to a product if they can at all avoid it. I seriously doubt Bandlab will ever tell us the bottom line but being tied to Bandlab over gives them some leverage. I am not sure Bandlab expects Sonar to be profitable standalone. In the end, Sonar (and CbB) work well and if it's worth it to you, rent it. Has anyone list out the specific differences outside of the visuals? I know they've added some new features. This is not a comprehensive list: Spectrum Analyser on every track Pro Channel Concrete Limiter Session Drummer 3 Routing Enhancements for sends Satrt and End Markers Track Manager Enhancements Articulation Note Offsets Automation Smoothing Configuration Backup/Restore New File Types Cakewalk Zip Files Cakewalk Next for Windows & Mac Audio Engine optimizations Greatly improved latency Plugin oversampling Plugin Load Balancing PDC Overrides Flyout Dynamic Tooltips External Insert improvements Quick Exit modes Deag and Drop opmtimizations MIDI drawing optimizations You can now quickly delete specific articulations that are in use in a project, directly from the Articulation Map editor Command to "Select Associated Tracks/Buses" Command to "Select Associated Instrument Tracks" via the Synth Rack New "Left Click Sets Track Focus" global option Improved Toast Notifications Updated Command Center New Sampler Edited January 23 by Bristol_Jonesey 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted Saturday at 11:36 AM Share Posted Saturday at 11:36 AM My favorite feature is that it is faster. On my older computer I was ready for an upgrade. Larger projects were starting to bog me down. With the speed enhancements of the new Sonar, I am able to postpone upgrading my computer for a little while. Even though I don’t like them, the monthly fees are cheaper than a new computer. I hate monthly Sonar rent, but some software companies are moving this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Monkey Posted Saturday at 04:13 PM Share Posted Saturday at 04:13 PM (edited) On 1/25/2025 at 3:36 AM, Max Arwood said: I hate monthly Sonar rent, but some software companies The whole year was on sale for I think $79us a short while ago. I got it last July for$99. But I had to use a different log in because they won’t allow current members the discount. Loyalty gets you zip! Now I guess I’ll wait until June and hopefully there’s a sale. Im not willing to pay $150 us ( $216 can) for a Daw that I can’t trust will have a future. I’ll gladly pay that to own it. Edited Monday at 04:18 PM by Sock Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted Sunday at 06:34 AM Share Posted Sunday at 06:34 AM On 1/22/2025 at 4:33 PM, Bristol_Jonesey said: It's pure conjecture. I am sure SOME users have jumped ship but to say the MAJORITY of them have is totally disingenuous. I agree but definitely, MANY of US are NOT buying subscriptions we are using CWbyBL...I can say right here and now I will NEVER buy a subscription. I have had reaper for many years and also own a version of Studio One. I also think they are making a huge mistake. I am ready to buy Sonar right now. I'll deal with upgrades and paying for updates when u it happens. Sadly for me and I know many others I also started in rh very early 90's with CW. It's like an old friend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted Monday at 12:19 PM Share Posted Monday at 12:19 PM The least what they could of done is offer a permanent unlock for current Cakewalk by bandlab for full year subscribers of new Sonar. Like 99% of cars are sold with an emergency spare tire. By not offering perpetual license and holding hostage Cakewalk by disabling activations from time to time, my trust of this company diminished greatly. Also, because Specific wording of Cakewalk discontinuation was present in FAQ at Sonar release. A particular person working for BL promised to keep us updated on this issue never responded (it's somewhere in this forum section) They suppress such conversations, which is a bad karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TearOfTheStar Posted Monday at 01:53 PM Share Posted Monday at 01:53 PM For subscription model to be somewhat tolerable, it must (MUST!) be like some software development companies do. You pay for a year, you get a year of updates, if you don't pay for the next year, you don't get updates, but what you already have, you can use for as long as you want. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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