Cakewalk Latency recording from Roland TD-27 Multi-Track Audio

[Alex Cordero]

MY GOAL:
Record *Multi-Track Audio* from my TD-27 Drumkit so I can mix and add VSTs as needed.
I've been recording L/R 1/4" out from the TD-27 all this time but the mix is not the best and I'm limited to what I can do with it on a single stereo track.

EQUIPMENT:
Roland TD-27, Good quality USB Cable, Brand New Gaming PC with 64Gb Ram, AMD Ryzen 9 9950 on a Asus X870 Gaming MB & Win11 Pro. (No Audio Card - just onboard), Focusrite Gen 3 2i2, and of course, Cakewalk.

SETUP:
The TD-27 is setup for Vendor Mode (which they suggested) and has updated firmware. Connected via USB directly to PC. The PC connects to my Focusrite which outputs to speakers. I've downloaded the latest TD27 drivers and rebooted/restarted everything. Windows is also up to date with no driver issues. Cakewalk is also up-to-date.

THE ISSUE:
When I go into Cakewalk preferences and select ASIO, I can play back all my other instrument tracks (bass, keys, guitar, vocals, etc), *BUT I can't select any individual drum tracks as they're greyed-out.
Selecting WASAPI Shared, I now can select the individual drum audio tracks, *BUT I get terrible *LATENCY* and can not adjust the buffer as it's greyed-out.
WASAPI Exclusive also allows me to select the drum audio tracks, *BUT now sounds horribly broken up and still has latency. Although I can adjust the buffer, it still sounds absolutely unusable.
I've downloaded ASIO4all, *BUT it didn't work at all. 

I've also tried on another computer (My new computers predecessor which has all the same software and setup, *BUT same result.
I can record no problem from L/Mono, Right, But that isn't what I'm trying to do.
I can also get Midi to record into the track, But also, not what I'm trying to do.
I've search forums and YouTube and can't find the answer.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

[reginaldStjohn]

You need an audio interface to record more then just the L/R in one go.,  In order to use ASIO you need an interface that supports it. When it is selected you can only select one device. 

I am not sure I understand what exactly you are trying to do but many of your problems are that you are trying to use your drum brain as the interface and it appears to not have an ASIO driver.  Your focusrite does have an ASIO driver. So route your drum audio into your Focusrite interface and use that to record the audio out of your drum module.  Then you can use the Focusrite ASIO driver to both record and playback.

Edited December 6, 2024 by reginaldStjohn

[57Gregy]

8 hours ago, Alex Cordero said:

MY GOAL:
Record *Multi-Track Audio* from my TD-27 Drumkit so I can mix and add VSTs as needed.
I've been recording L/R 1/4" out from the TD-27 all this time but the mix is not the best and I'm limited to what I can do with it on a single stereo track.

EQUIPMENT:
Roland TD-27, Good quality USB Cable, Brand New Gaming PC with 64Gb Ram, AMD Ryzen 9 9950 on a Asus X870 Gaming MB & Win11 Pro. (No Audio Card - just onboard), Focusrite Gen 3 2i2, and of course, Cakewalk.

SETUP:
The TD-27 is setup for Vendor Mode (which they suggested) and has updated firmware. Connected via USB directly to PC. The PC connects to my Focusrite which outputs to speakers. I've downloaded the latest TD27 drivers and rebooted/restarted everything. Windows is also up to date with no driver issues. Cakewalk is also up-to-date.

THE ISSUE:
When I go into Cakewalk preferences and select ASIO, I can play back all my other instrument tracks (bass, keys, guitar, vocals, etc), *BUT I can't select any individual drum tracks as they're greyed-out.
Selecting WASAPI Shared, I now can select the individual drum audio tracks, *BUT I get terrible *LATENCY* and can not adjust the buffer as it's greyed-out.
WASAPI Exclusive also allows me to select the drum audio tracks, *BUT now sounds horribly broken up and still has latency. Although I can adjust the buffer, it still sounds absolutely unusable.
I've downloaded ASIO4all, *BUT it didn't work at all. 

I've also tried on another computer (My new computers predecessor which has all the same software and setup, *BUT same result.
I can record no problem from L/Mono, Right, But that isn't what I'm trying to do.
I can also get Midi to record into the track, But also, not what I'm trying to do.
I've search forums and YouTube and can't find the answer.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

Welcome to the forum.
You should record the MIDI from your drums and output the MIDI tracks to your chosen software synth. The soft synth tracks will not be "recorded" without additional steps taken. It can later be Frozen or Bounced to Track(s), if desired.
If you want to record the actual sounds of your drum kit, the stereo output is the only way (I write that not knowing if the Roland can transmit audio via USB).
If you want to record the actual sounds of your drum kit with each drum on its own audio track, you have to do them 1 by 1, muting all the tracks you don't want recorded.

[Alex Cordero]

There doesn't seem to be a way to directly reply to answers on this post so I'll clarify better here in case I did a bad job initially.

YES: The Roland TD-27 Drum Kit DOES output via USB for MultiTrack Recording. This is an intentional feature.

YES: I have managed to get this to work with WASAPI Shared, BUT there is TREMENDOUS LATENCY. (THIS IS THE PROBLEM I NEED TO SOLVE DESPERATELY)

YES: I have already been recording the whole drumkit in L/R output mode but I can't modify the kick for example (ex: add more bass), or if I wanted to duck the Bass Guitar based on the Kick. I need it on a separate track. It can be done BUT not with this latency issue.

NO: I will not record the drum track 18x to record each part separately. Who would do that??

NO: My question was not about recoding MIDI. That's not my goal here. I like the sounds from my drum kit.

New notes: I have tried this now on 3 separate PCs. One brand new gaming machine with more power than anyone needs for this. Another PC that I use to experiment on. And another with a pretty decent soundcard (if that matters). ALL have good amount of CPU and Memory. None show any bad draw on resources in the resource manager.

Thanks again for any help on this.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Alex Cordero

[57Gregy]

Sadly, I think you're just going to have to deal with the latency and manually line up the clips post-recording.
As mentioned, when using ASIO, you can only use 1 device, which is the Focusrite in this case. If the Roland audio interface in the brain also has an ASIO driver, you can only use that one.

[Sock Monkey]

Seems to me if it’s Roland it would have an ASIO audio/ midi driver that should be installed.  
WASAPI exclusive has pretty good latency but ASIO should have none when set up correctly. 
 

Then in your Daw choose ASIO mode and the Roland as the device. Don’t use the other interface for recording the drums. I would think you can use the Roland as an interface.

Probably you can hear the DAW playing in the drum kit headphones. I would read the manual and look for how you can set this up. 

if not possible then: 

On my Yamaha kit it has an Auxiliary input that I  connect to the headphone jack of my interface. I then monitor the Daw and the drum kit directly from the kit’s headphone jack and there is no latency that way.  The audio output recording is in sync with the Daw project and the midi version is too. 
I record both audio and the midi. Then I can double up on sounds. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Sock Monkey

[mettelus]

On 12/6/2024 at 12:14 PM, Alex Cordero said:

When I go into Cakewalk preferences and select ASIO

I had to research the TD-27, which will send audio over the USB. The issue with using ASIO is you now have two devices connected (TD-27 and Focusrite) which won't work.

This same latency concern came up in another thread, and my experience with tracking is to ARM/Record the drums tracks but MUTE them. Use the headphone out of the TD-27 as your direct monitor and only have the DAW playing back the other tracks (via the Focusrite). You will have to use WASAPI Shared to do this, but it will let you focus on your performance. When finished tracking, you may need to nudge all of those drum tracks by a universal amount, but it should alleviate the latency for the tracking part of things. For most situations, you want to direct monitor audio from its source rather than through the DAW recording them.

Edited December 9, 2024 by mettelus

[Alex Cordero]

I'm finding no way around this, and it's held up months of progress. I think the answer might be to DUMP Cakewalk. I see no real answers only hacks.

Has anyone had any success around this issue with other DAWS?

[57Gregy]

10 minutes ago, Alex Cordero said:

Has anyone had any success around this issue with other DAWS?

I think I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to do. What is the issue?
You want to record. live, all the drum outputs of your TD 27 via USB into Cakewalk by Bandlab, on separate tracks, but you're unable to get it working. Is that the gist of it?
The USB thing seems to be the hang-up. It seems like you should be using the Roland USB driver to do that. I don't have much familiarity with that vendor. 
Can you post a screen shot of your Preferences/Devices and Driver Settings?
I am almost willing to bet large parts of my anatomy that Cakewalk can do it; just a matter of set-up, I think.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 10:12 PM, Alex Cordero said:

NO: I will not record the drum track 18x to record each part separately. Who would do that??

I do it all the time (Yamaha keyboard audio output to audio interface input, all tracks muted except the current track, hit record, then on to the next track). Set it up, click record, go get some coffee.

[Sock Monkey]

He probably won’t come back but I gave them the correct solution which probably didn’t read.
That simple solution is to install the Roland ASIO driver and disconnect the Focusrite while recording the drums.

Roland is a world leader in digital drums and almost wrote the book on midi.  This is not a hack. 
ASIO cannot be used with multiple devices. This is nothing to do with the Daw you are using. it is a specification of the Steinberg ASIO driver. 
 

I bet all of this is clearly explained in the Roland user manual which one would assume you have been reading. They also have excellent support. 
There’s possibly dozens of videos about that kit. 

The software it 100 % capable of recording high quality multi track audio over that USB cable. There is no hack required. Just follow the instructions. 
If you don’t understand the instructions then ask for clarification on what it is you don’t understand. 
 

I find any questions I have about just about everything is instantly answered by Google. I actually learned a lot about your drum kit and what it is capable of  by doing just that. It didn’t take a month! 


 

Edited January 3 by Sock Monkey

[Byron Dickens]

4 hours ago, Alex Cordero said:

I'm finding no way around this, and it's held up months of progress. I think the answer might be to DUMP Cakewalk. I see no real answers only hacks.

Has anyone had any success around this issue with other DAWS?

Yeah. RTFM.  If you'd have done that, you would have solved this non-issue months ago.

[Glenn Stanton]

sadly, all he needed to do was live monitor the audio of the kit vs the recording, and then capture the MIDI (and for me i also capture the audio). did this all the time for many recordings. no latency on any DAW. just my generally sloppy drumming 🙂 easily fixed by edits and quantizing... LOL

Edited January 3 by Glenn Stanton

[Alex Cordero]

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

He probably won’t come back but I gave them the correct solution which probably didn’t read.
That simple solution is to install the Roland ASIO driver and disconnect the Focusrite while recording the drums.

Roland is a world leader in digital drums and almost wrote the book on midi.  This is not a hack. 
ASIO cannot be used with multiple devices. This is nothing to do with the Daw you are using. it is a specification of the Steinberg ASIO driver. 
 

I bet all of this is clearly explained in the Roland user manual which one would assume you have been reading. They also have excellent support. 
There’s possibly dozens of videos about that kit. 

The software it 100 % capable of recording high quality multi track audio over that USB cable. There is no hack required. Just follow the instructions. 
If you don’t understand the instructions then ask for clarification on what it is you don’t understand. 
 

I find any questions I have about just about everything is instantly answered by Google. I actually learned a lot about your drum kit and what it is capable of  by doing just that. It didn’t take a month! 


 

I did exactly that and it didn't work.

[Alex Cordero]

39 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

sadly, all he needed to do was live monitor the audio of the kit vs the recording, and then capture the MIDI (and for me i also capture the audio). did this all the time for many recordings. no latency on any DAW. just my generally sloppy drumming 🙂 easily fixed by edits and quantizing... LOL

I've done that. I've tried everyone's suggestions. No need to be an ahole. That might work as a sloppy work-around. I really need to hear what's happening especially the metronome. I'm open to and appreciative for helpful suggestions that I haven't tried yet. I shouldn't have to record things out of time and try to repair them later.

[Alex Cordero]

11 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

Yeah. RTFM.  If you'd have done that, you would have solved this non-issue months ago.

I have read the manuals. No need to be an ahole. I'm coming here looking for kind people to be helpful. Jerk!

[Alex Cordero]

15 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

He probably won’t come back but I gave them the correct solution which probably didn’t read.
That simple solution is to install the Roland ASIO driver and disconnect the Focusrite while recording the drums.

Roland is a world leader in digital drums and almost wrote the book on midi.  This is not a hack. 
ASIO cannot be used with multiple devices. This is nothing to do with the Daw you are using. it is a specification of the Steinberg ASIO driver. 
 

I bet all of this is clearly explained in the Roland user manual which one would assume you have been reading. They also have excellent support. 
There’s possibly dozens of videos about that kit. 

The software it 100 % capable of recording high quality multi track audio over that USB cable. There is no hack required. Just follow the instructions. 
If you don’t understand the instructions then ask for clarification on what it is you don’t understand. 
 

I find any questions I have about just about everything is instantly answered by Google. I actually learned a lot about your drum kit and what it is capable of  by doing just that. It didn’t take a month! 


 

I'm not sure if you read my original post stating that I've already downloaded and installed the latest TD27 drivers from the Roland website. If there's a special Asio driver I'm not aware of, please provide a link. I've already tried ASIO4all as well.

[Sock Monkey]

Thanks for the update. 
But you have not answered if you have tried what I recommend. 
Disconnect the Focusrite and then use the Roland as the audio interface. 
It should show in Cakewalk as an available ASIO interface and hopefully it has multiple audio inputs .  
 

If it shows in preferences as having multiple inputs available then make sure and check them all. 
 

Then insert that many audio tracks and choose the  different inputs for each track. Now arm them and test by hitting each kit piece. 
It will then also be the audio output for Cakewalk and the audio will play through the headphones of the drum module. So you will hear the metronome or backing tracks. Make sure it shows as the hardware output of the master bus. 
 

 I’m only speculating on how your system works Im not about to read the manual. 

A lot depends upon the driver and interface being multi channel and not just a stereo pair. 
Im optimistic that it is multi channels as you mentioned they were showing in Preferences but were greyed out. 

This is why you need to disconnect the Scarlett. You only want the Roland as the only available audio device. No Asio4all. or HDMI. 
 

I just looked it up and it says that it is a 28x 2?? audio interface. So with the ASIO driver it will show as 28 audio inputs in any Daw 
They might show as 14 stereo pairs. 

 

Edited January 3 by Sock Monkey

[Alex Cordero]

9 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

Thanks for the update. 
But you have not answered if you have tried what I recommend. 
Disconnect the Focusrite and then use the Roland as the audio interface. 
It should show in Cakewalk as an available ASIO interface and hopefully it has multiple audio inputs .  
 

If it shows in preferences as having multiple inputs available then make sure and check them all. 
 

Then insert that many audio tracks and choose the  different inputs for each track. Now arm them and test by hitting each kit piece. 
It will then also be the audio output for Cakewalk and the audio will play through the headphones of the drum module. So you will hear the metronome or backing tracks. Make sure it shows as the hardware output of the master bus. 
 

 I’m only speculating on how your system works Im not about to read the manual. 

A lot depends upon the driver and interface being multi channel and not just a stereo pair. 
Im optimistic that it is multi channels as you mentioned they were showing in Preferences but were greyed out. 

This is why you need to disconnect the Scarlett. You only want the Roland as the only available audio device. No Asio4all. or HDMI. 
 

I just looked it up and it says that it is a 28x 2?? audio interface. So with the ASIO driver it will show as 28 audio inputs in any Daw 
They might show as 14 stereo pairs. 

 

Yes, I did exactly that from the beginning, and from there experimented with different set ups. I 100% agree with you that it should work that way, but I still had latency. Weirdest thing!!! So, a few hours ago the latency stopped. No other updates, changes or anything I haven't tried before... except having L/R and USB connected at the same time. Maybe has nothing to do with it.

I have it currently recording Audio (not Midi) to multi tracks. (I'm ok with that for now but Midi would be the next step)
The TD27 simultaneously has L/R connected to the Focusrite and USB connected to the PC. Both options work. (Just seeing what worked and didn't)
It's recording from the TD27 into Cakewalk while the previously recorded tracks AND the sound from the TD27 is routed through the Focusrite coming out of the speakers.

I hope I don't get that latency back, but after I finish this quick project, I'm making it a mission to find out why it happened and share the answer for the next guy who might suffer from this. I'll add screenshots if possible when I figure it out.

[Sock Monkey]

So your still using 2 USB devices which then would imply you are not using ASIO ? 

[Alex Cordero]

20 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said:

So your still using 2 USB devices which then would imply you are not using ASIO ? 

Yes, using ASIO.
I couldn't wait to mess with it, so I took some screenshots and notes and started to mess with it to figure it out.
I'm sure some armchair expert here will sit back in their chair picking their teeth, patting their fat belly, looking down their nose and say "of course"... but here's what I found so far in case it helps anyone.

Cakewalk Preferences (Devices) show choices for the Focusrite and all TD27 inputs/outputs. Some are greyed out. The inputs and outputs are only greyed out based on the selection made in the output area. If you have the Focusrite selected in the output, you can't select any TD options in either. Once you deselect the output now you can make other selections. After selecting your TD choices, the FR options become greyed out.
At this point, you MUST, "Apply" the changes before getting fresh options in other preferences screens.
As a software engineer, I tend to develop apps like this to update/cache the changes when moving through screens and then updating the config on save or dumping the cache on cancel. So, my bad for not thinking it didn't work that way.

It looks like the TD is routing through the USB into the PC.
Cakewalk does its thing and sends back the TD sound plus the other prerecorded tracks back through USB into the TD.
Where it then sends back out along the L/R 1/4" outputs into the Focusrite which plays sound through the speakers. Could probably use the TD headphone out too.
I'm sure this isn't the right way but it's what worked for me so far. See screenshots attached.

I'm still open to any suggestions to try to get this working the right way.
Thanks again.

[Sock Monkey]

Sounds like you only missed the small detail of clicking "Apply" 

It all looks good to me.

Few things I would add.  In the Sync and Caching. Make sure the TD 27 shows as Latency Adjustment device. This is critical for being in sync.  

Also if you want to record and playback midi make sure that the TD27 is selected as an input and output device. Always hit Apply after making changes.