Untitled Experimental track, WIP looking for feedback

[Amberwolf]

Still in early stages of composition and creation, using primarily sample libraries from GhostHack, Black Octopus Sound, and Image Sounds, as well as stuff I already had, and stuff I had made myself, as well as Z3TA2+ synth, and various effects.  

 

EDIT:  see later posts in the thread for current version links.

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14881842

 

Looking for detailed / helpful critiques of any part of the track, technical, musical, or otherwise.   Give it to me straight.

 

Stuff I already know about that I'm working on:  There's too much going on in several places, and some of the transitions are pretty abrupt.   It has a LOT of work still to go, but I have a direction to go in, at least.  I expect it will end up at least twice as long as it is now with the interludes and intro stuff I haven't built and played yet.  Many of the samples in the libraries need trimming / chopping up / key changing in various ways to create the melodies and harmonies I'm after (I already did some of this for certain sections, but there's a lot yet to go).  The percussion I still have to build transitions and "thinner" sections of to clear out some sections where there's too much going on.  

 But any feedback about those is also still welcome. 

 

I wish the libraries had a "lyrics" translation for the non-English vocals.  I love the sound of them but it would be nice to know what they mean.   (one of them has translations for the Elvish parts, but nothing for the real languages). 

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by Amberwolf

[Amberwolf]

Updated version:   https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14881894

[Mr No Name]

That's actually very good imo, nice track.

I wouldn't mess about too much more with it, sounds great,

one thing I would say, there is a small bit at the beginning and a bit at the end where the high end sounds a bit too saturated. couple of bars worth.

as for the music,  top tune.

[pwallie]

do like, reminds me of transglobal underground/loop guru, in the second/updated version i find the brushy percussion a bit harsh, and maybe generally a bit more space between instruments/loops

good job sir

[Amberwolf]

21 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

That's actually very good imo, nice track.

I wouldn't mess about too much more with it, sounds great,

one thing I would say, there is a small bit at the beginning and a bit at the end where the high end sounds a bit too saturated. couple of bars worth.

as for the music,  top tune.

Thanks!   I think the high end sounds that way because the bass isn't present there,  so it's getting brought up too much by the master bus compression.  I'll have to use some automation to deal with that. 

 

16 hours ago, lɐʍd said:

do like, reminds me of transglobal underground/loop guru, in the second/updated version i find the brushy percussion a bit harsh, and maybe generally a bit more space between instruments/loops

good job sir

Thanks!  I don't know TGU/LG, but I'll google them.   (I dont' really listen to anything other than whatever might be background in some tv show or movie I've seen , and whatever's forced on me by the overhead radio loop at work). 

I modified some of the "heavy" brushy stuff in the early section to blend in better; later sections I left more or less intact (except the sudden clashy moments, other than one for a transition).   If they still seem harsh, point to times and I'll see what's going on.

What do you mean by "more space between instruments / loops"?   I can think of several things "space" might mean....

 

For now, here's version 3 with some more accent vocals, percussion, and string bits added, and some main percussion altered or removed, some transitions in various tracks shifted to better line up with each ohter.

110124 000001 000038n

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14882868

[bjornpdx]

I like it. The voc samples fit in naturally but maybe need to stand out more?
It's a bit repetitive IMO but maybe that's what you're going for.
I'd like to hear more of the flute (?)

I love world female voc samples and have used them quite a bit.
Check out Aliye by Sonokinetic on YouTube The library even has translations.

-Bjorn

[Amberwolf]

New version 110124 000001 000047u

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14884412

 

On 11/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, bjornpdx said:

I like it. The voc samples fit in naturally but maybe need to stand out more?

There are some places I am probably going to bring htem out; I'm not sure if I want to for th whole thing but we'll see how that works out.

 

On 11/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, bjornpdx said:

It's a bit repetitive IMO but maybe that's what you're going for.

I am slowly replacing various vocal pieces (or embellishing them or altering them) as I find appropriate ones that better fit the song tha'ts been built since I started.  So that should be fixed eventually.  

 

On 11/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, bjornpdx said:

I'd like to hear more of the flute (?)

There's a few tiny flute bits, one of them flowing thru a small vocal segment that fit with it perfectly at 2:07 in, and a couple more in the next 15 seconds or so.   Is one of those what you mean? 

 

On 11/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, bjornpdx said:

I love world female voc samples and have used them quite a bit.
Check out Aliye by Sonokinetic on YouTube The library even has translations.

Thanks!  I'll take a look (but unless APD/etc has them for super cheap (like $10 :lol: ) I don't have the budget for it).  

[Amberwolf]

Aaannnnd...new version 5  

110124 000001 000060x

 

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14884899

[Wookiee]

Tad hot hitting the reds on my Clarett as noted there is some very distinct saturation at the beginning and end. I also felt that the opening drums were a tad muddy.

Mix needs some attention in my opinion, for what that is worth, I always remember it doesn't have to be as loud as possible people have volume controls which they can use to regulate levels.

[Amberwolf]

New sixth version:  rebussed, remixed, levels, fx, etc.

110124 000001 100071C

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14885278

 

18 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Tad hot hitting the reds on my Clarett as noted there is some very distinct saturation at the beginning and end.

Strange; the levels in the mix are much lower at the beginning and end, on all the tracks. and the master bus out. 

My hearing is nowhere near as good as it used to be, and my tinnitus keeps me from hearing a lot of things, so I don't hear any issues there.  (which is why I ask for the feedback, so I can fix things I can't tell are there anymore  ). 

I hadn't yet done anything mix-wise; was just using the "template" I already had from The Skaergaard Intrusion project, with it's bussing, levels, etc., and this left the final multiband compressor with a +5.1dB final gain, which in this project's mix meant that the waveform between the beginning and end was the "trimmed hedge" look, while the B&E were a normal waveform nowhere near clipping (or triggering the compression).  

Now I've gone thru and reduced general levels in tracks and buses, and reset the gain on the MBC, so it doesn't have the hedgetrimming, and is a normal waveform throughout.  I also rechained some of the FX, and rebussed certain things, splig the vocals to multiple tracks to allow different submixes, which brought up the vocals some, and then readjusted the automation to compensate for some issues caused by that. 

 

 

18 hours ago, Wookiee said:

I also felt that the opening drums were a tad muddy.

Thank you for listening and responding!

Which drums?  there are some "tiny / thin" drums intended to just fade into the song, then there are some kettle drums. 

The latter include their own FX in the clip so until I can find some kettledrum samples in my stuff that are  close enough to replace them with (with my own FX chain) there's not much I can do about any muddiness there. 

 

 

18 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Mix needs some attention in my opinion, for what that is worth, I always remember it doesn't have to be as loud as possible people have volume controls which they can use to regulate levels.

yeah, the problem I have had is that some of the people that have listened to my stuff tell me that they aren't going to listen to stuff they have to turn up because then when they play their regular stuff they have to remember to turn it back down first (because it's probably all stuff tha'ts been overcompressed to death).  

So I started doing it this way so I could get them to keep listening (since I have so very few people willing to even try, I have to keep as many as I can).  

But I went ahead and turned this one down a lot more than usual.

 

 

[Wookiee]

Just telling what I am hearing. I am listening on Adam A7x's set to flat gain, 0.0dB, no tonal adjustment to the rear pots on the Adams. The Clarett Pre 8 USB goes to an IK multimedia ARC Studio room adjustment box, via balanced cables, then on to the Adams again using Balanced cables. There is some room treatment for early reflections a bass trapping. The output level on the Clarett is set so a sustained signal level peak of -1dB is comfortable to listen to.

[Amberwolf]

7 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Just telling what I am hearing. I am listening on Adam A7x's set to flat gain, 0.0dB, no tonal adjustment to the rear pots on the Adams. The Clarett Pre 8 USB goes to an IK multimedia ARC Studio room adjustment box, via balanced cables, then on to the Adams again using Balanced cables. There is some room treatment for early reflections a bass trapping. The output level on the Clarett is set so a sustained signal level peak of -1dB is comfortable to listen to.

Thanks--unfortunately I don't really know what most of those mean regarding the way this track sounds 😊 (while I know some of the technical stuff, I don't know the specific equipment, etc).  

My own hearing is failing in a way that I probably simply can't tell the problems exist--I'm sure they're there if you hear them.  There's lots of things I cant' hear at all because they're right in the spots where my various tinnitus whines lie, or where the frequency bands of my ears are that simply don't work anymore. 

 

 

Is the newer version (71C) better, or worse?

[Amberwolf]

7th new version;

110124 000001 100092G

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14885769

I experimented and built a bass-companion track out of tiny slices of a deep female voice from the samples out of the free Marie-Pneuma instrument from PianoBook, to complement the synthbass (Z3TA2+) bassline in some places.  It was going to replace that track, but didn't do what I wanted everywhere, so it's just addon in places and replacement in a very few spots. Rather than use the clip's pitch dialog, I used Kerovee (automatable tuner/pitchshifter)as a track FX and automation to control the transpose to match the synthbass notes, after first building "clips" of the arp pattern in the voice by using the clip pitch dialog then bouncing the resulting many tiny clips into 2-measure-long sections to use and slice up as needed.  

 

Also further edited the vocal tracks to try to cure the repeititititiveness; that's still a WIP though it's much better. More mix changes, etc. 

[Martin Schiff]

It keeps getting better and better with each version. I like it.

Try a high pass filter on the female vocal to clean it up a bit.

-- Martin

[Amberwolf]

19 hours ago, Martin Schiff said:

It keeps getting better and better with each version. I like it.

Try a high pass filter on the female vocal to clean it up a bit.

Thanks for listening and commenting!  

What specifically do you hear that needs "clean up"?  (so I can target it, as I probably can't hear it myself).   

I am presently using VX64 Vocalstrip on them, with the vocals split between "lead" and "backing", wiht lead going thru Lead Vocal Over Easy Please preset and and backing thru "backing vox silky sligh" preset.    These have an EQ I can change, or I can stick a separate EQ in there, if necessary.

   

[Martin Schiff]

I was hearing some muddiness in the vocal low end. Just a suggestion.

[Amberwolf]

20 hours ago, Martin Schiff said:

I was hearing some muddiness in the vocal low end. Just a suggestion.

I'll poke around at it with VoxengoSPAN to see what's in there, and an EQ to roll stuff off and see what happens.

[Amberwolf]

On 11/14/2024 at 11:36 PM, Martin Schiff said:

I was hearing some muddiness in the vocal low end. Just a suggestion.

With VoxengoSPAN in each vocal bus I found that at the input to the chain there was some low end less than around -40db from about 150-200z on down.   At the output of the fx chain there was less of this, around -48db or less. 

With my hearing as bad as it is I don't hear a difference between eqing that out with an HPF or not, so you'll have to tell me if you do when I get the new version uploaded and linked here (still poking at it). 

 

What I can hear a difference in:  There's significant "content" peak in the 200-500hz range, mostly centered right in the middle in a typical bell curve, actually louder than the rest of the spectrum for most of the "harmony" Indian Chant vocals, and it greatly alters the vocals if I take that out, making them really thin.  None of the EQs I have are able to notch just whatever might be causing muddiness out without taking out too much other stuff. ; I'll put a version up with this notched out to see if that is the band you're hearing.  

[Amberwolf]

version 8 with the changes above.   

https://www.soundclick.com/amberwolf/?more=14896411

 

trying to figure out kerovee to more naturally retune the segments of the vocal clip samples that are a different note / key than the song is at that point, since the present retuning is very unnatural, having been done by just splitting that section of the clip off and using the clip properties note +/- to set it to a different note.  (which works fine to test them, but in most places isn't suitable for the result I'm after.

[treesha]

Im coming in at version 8. I like it, evocative and interesting. I think as for the mix, some things are too prominent to me. Like the shakers seem too loud. Some of the hi things sound bit harsh to me. I love the low end and the vocals, if I was mixing this I would start with the low end and vocals most being most prominent, then add in the other tasty stuff behind those. Reminds me when the male voice comes in of the album by Gaudi + singer Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan ‎on the album Dub Qawwali. I like how Gaudi mixes. I believe he made the album after Ali Kahn had passed making the songs around his previously recorded vocals. Anyways, you might get some ideas from that album’s mixing. Keep working on it, its worth it.