Instrument Track View Controls: Velocity vs. Gain

[murat k.]

Wouldn't it be more useful if the Gain control appeared instead of Velocity in the Instrument Track controls in Cakewalk's Track View?
Based on my usage, I tend to use Gain more frequently than Velocity.
Ideally, having both would be great, but if I had to choose one, I would prefer Gain.

[Amberwolf]

Do you mean Trim?   ****

If so, you can use Widget Tab Managment to turn that on in the Custom tab view (or make your own tab, or use any of the tabs except "All").   Right click in the empty space below your track strips, and WTM is in the menu there. (mgiht also be elsewhere). 

 

****  I don't have any track controls for Gain in my ancient SONAR version, just Trim and Volume for audio or synth tracks. I don't know what's available in modern versions. 

[murat k.]

12 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

Do you mean Trim?   ****

If so, you can use Widget Tab Managment to turn that on in the Custom tab view (or make your own tab, or use any of the tabs except "All").   Right click in the empty space below your track strips, and WTM is in the menu there. (mgiht also be elsewhere). 

 

****  I don't have any track controls for Gain in my ancient SONAR version, just Trim and Volume for audio or synth tracks. I don't know what's available in modern versions. 

You can see an example in this thread of what happens when a user gives completely irrelevant advice:

 

But I should congratulate you. This time, by giving advice based on an ancient version of Sonar, you’ve truly taken irrelevance to a whole new level.

Edited October 9 by murat k.

[pwallie]

have another one mr troll

[Wookiee]

17 hours ago, murat k. said:

Wouldn't it be more useful if the Gain control appeared instead of Velocity in the Instrument Track controls in Cakewalk's Track View?
Based on my usage, I tend to use Gain more frequently than Velocity.
Ideally, having both would be great, but if I had to choose one, I would prefer Gain.

Gain controls the amplification that can applied in a track to the Audio of either an Audio track or the Audio track of a Software Synth. As such it is something that only applies to amplifiers.

Velocity is A MIDI CC control that can be applied to a number of different parameters within a synth. Though frequently used to control the volume of a note, it can be used to open or close a filter, or increase or decrease the resonance of a filter, or modify the shape of an envelope or conture, or any other MIDI CC command. Consequently it only applies to MIDI.

They are completely different in their function and there would be no value in what you suggest. At the risk I suggest you perhaps take time to learn the difference between the two. Perhaps also learn about gain stageing in audio mixing and what gain is in an amplifier. It 8s possible to have both a gain control and a volume control in an amplifier. 

Gain dictates how much increase in power the amplifier adds to a signal. 

Volume is strictly an attenuator control, it can not increase the loudness of a signal only reduce it.

You may like to try using split instrument tracks, these give you an Audio track and a MIDI track, it is my preference which I use for all my projects. 

[Wookiee]

Please keep it civil, if you have nothing of value to add, then add nothing.

[msmcleod]

If the you're on the Audio tab then it's gain; if you're on the MIDI tab then it's velocity.

The same thing goes for Pan & Volume fader - i.e.  Audio Tab = Audio Pan/Volume,  MIDI Tab = MIDI Pan / Volume.

[Wookiee]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

If the you're on the Audio tab then it's gain; if you're on the MIDI tab then it's velocity.

The same thing goes for Pan & Volume fader - i.e.  Audio Tab = Audio Pan/Volume,  MIDI Tab = MIDI Pan / Volume.

Whilst this should be true some VST i's don't appear to respond to MIDI volume changes, unless the volume has been mapped to the correct MIDI CC. 

[Amberwolf]

12 hours ago, murat k. said:

But I should congratulate you. This time, by giving advice based on an ancient version of Sonar, you’ve truly taken irrelevance to a whole new level.

Ok.  I'll be sure not to reply to you in the future, to avoid causing you problems. 

[msmcleod]

10 hours ago, Wookiee said:

Whilst this should be true some VST i's don't appear to respond to MIDI volume changes, unless the volume has been mapped to the correct MIDI CC. 

Unfortunately that's up to the VSTi vendor.

In fact, it's not just VSTi's - some hardware synth modules ignore CC7 for volume.  IIRC I've got one or two Korg modules that ignore CC7 unless they're in GM mode.

[Wookiee]

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Unfortunately that's up to the VSTi vendor.

In fact, it's not just VSTi's - some hardware synth modules ignore CC7 for volume.  IIRC I've got one or two Korg modules that ignore CC7 unless they're in GM mode.

Correct totally random even with plugins from the same company. 

[murat k.]

Actually, OP is quite clear and straightforward. The expressions are correct and defined. Still, no one understood, which can happen; it’s just the nature of this place, so no problem.

What I'm saying is that this setting, if it were 'Gain,' would be more useful:

Because, as far as I can see, Gain is a control that is used more often compared to Velocity. It would be better if there were both, but according to the Track Control Manager, there is only one setting that controls Gain. 

In the past, both the Audio and MIDI tabs in Inspector used the definition of Gain for the relevant section, even though Velocity definition was used in Track View. It seems that this inconsistency has been resolved with the update to the Sonar GUI.

Besides that, thank you for your brilliant explanations; they were completely unnecessary.

[David Baay]

33 minutes ago, murat k. said:

Because, as far as I can see, Gain is a control that is used more often compared to Velocity.

Personally, I prefer having Velocity Offset (a.k.a MIDI Gain) widget in the track header, and use it frequently, because it essentially gives the ability to "tell the performer to play more aggressively" with the resultant change in attack/loudness/timbre/etc. response programmed by the synth developer.  To me it's more useful to have ready access to a control that does something very different to the sound than audio gain/volume.

Conversely, I seldom have a need to alter audio Gain on an Instrument track. I prefer to control the input level to the track by MIDI Volume (CC7) controlling the output level of the synth.  This is an old habit based on the the fact that you can't control audio Gain on a live input from a hardware synth, but I see no reason to treat soft synths differently just because I can.

I think it could be argued that Velocity Offset should never have been conflated with 'Gain' in the first place, and it might be useful to have ready access to both controls in Instrument track header as you suggested. But if I can only have one, I'll take Vel+.

Ulitmately, I'm satisfied with having access to all the controls via the Inspector.

[murat k.]

1 minute ago, David Baay said:

Personally, I prefer having Velocity Offset (a.k.a MIDI Gain) widget in the track header, and use it frequently, because it essentially gives the ability to "tell the performer to play more aggressively" with the resultant change in attack/loudness/timbre/etc. response programmed by the synth developer.  To me it's more useful to have ready access to a control that does something very different to the sound than audio gain/volume.

Conversely, I seldom have a need to alter audio Gain on an Instrument track. I prefer to control the input level to the track by MIDI Volume (CC7) controlling the output level of the synth.  This is an old habit based on the the fact that you can't control audio Gain on a live input from a hardware synth, but I see no reason to treat soft synths differently just because I can.

I think it could be argued that Velocity Offset should never have been conflated with 'Gain' in the first place, and it might be useful to have ready access to both controls in Instrument track header as you suggested. But if I can only have one, I'll take Vel+.

Ulitmately, I'm satisfied with having access to all the controls via the Inspector.

Here’s the kind of comment that should have been made from the beginning. Thank you!

[sjoens]

.

Edited October 14 by sjoens

[murat k.]

The discussion here has been concluded in this thread: