Seems there's no plans for a GM default Player?

[Sock Monkey]

EDIT Sept 22- I updated the title seeing as how this thread totally got derailed. Staff answered the highjack question instead of mine, so I take that as a No. 

 

Since the removal of the TTS-1 GM player Sonar is one the few Daw's that doesn't have a GM player anymore. 

Most Daw's will play a GM file using some sort of player as well as use the correct instruments and follow the tempo map. 

Cakewalk Sonar gives you midi tracks with no where to go. Therefore silence.  

 Cakewalk Next will play GM midi files. But It doesn't read the tempo maps. 

Are there plans to fix this sort of glaring error?  

Cakewalk used to be very popular for its TTS-1 and what it did.  

It used to play GM files automatically using the TTS_1 or the MS Wavetable. These were removed around last January.  

What is needed is a option to choose a default GM player like Ardour, Mixcraft and  other have. 

Edited September 23 by Sock Monkey
Added stuff

[Steven Philips]

Personally, I would forget about Sonar and just use CbB it does have TTS-1, it's not loaded by default when you start a new project, but it is loaded when you open a MIDI file.

[User 905133]

24 minutes ago, Steven Philips said:

Personally, I would forget about Sonar and just use CbB it does have TTS-1, it's not loaded by default when you start a new project, but it is loaded when you open a MIDI file.

Are you saying (for example) that people who have TTS-1 from prior purchases of SONAR can use TTS-1 in CbB but not in Cakewalk Sonar?

[Bristol_Jonesey]

1 hour ago, User 905133 said:

Are you saying (for example) that people who have TTS-1 from prior purchases of SONAR can use TTS-1 in CbB but not in Cakewalk Sonar?

No, that's wrong. Any previously installed instance of TTS-1 will work in all versions of Cakewalk/Sonar

[Jonathan Sasor]

2 hours ago, Steven Philips said:

Personally, I would forget about Sonar and just use CbB it does have TTS-1, it's not loaded by default when you start a new project, but it is loaded when you open a MIDI file.

Current Cakewalk by BandLab installs do not include TTS-1 either. You would need to use a legacy installer, or previous SONAR version to install it. 

[Sock Monkey]

50 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Current Cakewalk by BandLab installs do not include TTS-1 either. You would need to use a legacy installer, or previous SONAR version to install it. 

Yes a handful of us are aware of this. 

My post is for the benefit of new users. They will not have access to the TTS-1. 

There are alternative players like the VST synth font https://www.synthfont.com/   

But Sonar doesn't have a system in place to make this a default player when you open a Midi file in the way the TS-1 worked. 

It's also weird that Sonar removed the check box for using MS wavetable synth. At least that was a workable solution. 

I also find it odd that Cakewalk Next can. 

The question is-  are you planning on fixing this in future updates? It would seem it might be easy to copy what Next is doing. 

Edited September 20 by Sock Monkey

[Jonathan Sasor]

8 minutes ago, Sock Monkey said:

It's also weird that Sonar removed the check box for using MS wavetable synth. At least that was a workable solution. 

This is not accurate. The MS Wavetable synth is an external Windows component. When it's available for Sonar to use, it's visible as a port to enable. Typically you need to be in the MME driver mode to make that work (although using that in general is not recommended). 

[Steven Philips]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Current Cakewalk by BandLab installs do not include TTS-1 either. You would need to use a legacy installer, or previous SONAR version to install it. 

That explains why I still have TTS-1, as I still have my trusty Sonar X3 PE installed, and it's a good job that I didn't uninstall it, as I found that CbB is not as good as Sonar X3, mainly for these reasons:

 

1.  CbB can only use the MIDI output devices (with exceptions to external devices) that Bandlab specify.  Whereas Sonar X3 can use whatever it detects, currently it's using the Coolsoft Virtual Synth along with the fluidR3 soundfont, that CbB can't use.

2.  CbB gives a warning when trying to use ASIO4ALL, that it may be incompatible, forcing the use of MME that is unstable and has a very high latency, but Sonar X3 uses ASIO4ALL perfectly.

3.  CbB is 64 bit, whereas I previously chose to install the 32 bit version of Sonar X3 for compatibility with most of my 32 bit VST's and VSTi's, and find no difference in audio quality between 64 bit and 32 bit unless I use bit rates higher than 96K, which I don't, I use 41.1K.

4.  CbB's built in bit bridge is not always compatible with some 32 bit VST's and VSTi's,  whereas I can use jBridge for 64 bit VST's converted to 32 bit and successfully use them in Sonar X3.

 

That's just a few reasons I'll always stick to using my old Sonar X3 PE, and I only use CbB to upload a project to my Bandlab account, and just in case anyone is wondering, I have separate folders that hold projects for both CbB and Sonar X3, , and I set those paths in each DAW's configuration, so that CbB has its own project folder and Sonar X3 has its own project folder too, then when I've completed a project in X3, I make a copy in the CbB folder, then load it into CbB to be uploaded to my Bandlab account.

Edited September 20 by Steven Philips

[Steve Moddelmog]

2 hours ago, Sock Monkey said:

But Sonar doesn't have a system in place to make this a default player when you open a Midi file in the way the TS-1 worked. 

 

How do you set up CbB to make TTS-1 the default player for a MIDI file?  I was unaware of this capability.

[Jonathan Sasor]

32 minutes ago, Steve Moddelmog said:

How do you set up CbB to make TTS-1 the default player for a MIDI file?  I was unaware of this capability.

It does this automatically if no other MIDI ports are present.

[Steve Moddelmog]

26 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

It does this automatically if no other MIDI ports are present.

Ah, I never knew about that.  There's always something to learn, even after using Cakewalk / Sonar for more than 20 years. Thanks.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

12 hours ago, Steven Philips said:

2.  CbB gives a warning when trying to use ASIO4ALL, that it may be incompatible, forcing the use of MME that is unstable and has a very high latency, but Sonar X3 uses ASIO4ALL perfectly.

It's only a warning - nothing prevents you from using ASIO4ALL but why anyone would want to do this is a mystery.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

13 hours ago, Steven Philips said:

4.  CbB's built in bit bridge is not always compatible with some 32 bit VST's and VSTi's,  whereas I can use jBridge for 64 bit VST's converted to 32 bit and successfully use them in Sonar X3.

That's always been the case, going way back prior to Cakewalk by Bandlab. The recommended solution was always to use Jbridge if Bitbridge was throwing up errors

[Bristol_Jonesey]

23 hours ago, Steven Philips said:

3.  CbB is 64 bit, whereas I previously chose to install the 32 bit version of Sonar X3 for compatibility with most of my 32 bit VST's and VSTi's, and find no difference in audio quality between 64 bit and 32 bit unless I use bit rates higher than 96K, which I don't, I use 41.1K.

I fail to see how this makes CbB better than Sonar. If you're using Jbridge I(see above) then the vast majority of your 32 bit plugins will work in Sonar as well as they do in CbB. And are you absolutely sure there's no 64bit version of these plugins available? I and many others ditched most of our 32 bit plugs years ago.

Edited September 21 by Bristol_Jonesey

[pwallie]

5 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

nothing prevents you from using ASIO4ALL but why anyone would want to do this is a mystery.

realtek 🤣

[pwallie]

21 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Current Cakewalk by BandLab installs do not include TTS-1 either. You would need to use a legacy installer, or previous SONAR version to install it. 

i think the op question was "Is there plans for a GM default Player?" so, are there any plans to replace tts-1 for a new default gm player? (you're allowed to say no and not just divert from the question )

[Promidi]

No one here is going to know if here are plans for Sonar 2024 (soon to be Sonar 2025) to ever include a default General MIDI Player.  You would probably be better off asking the Bakers at support@cakewalk.com.

However, their answer will likely be"  “Not at this time, but never say never.....”  in other words....  no idea....

Personally, I think they should. 

I use an external Yamaha XG MIDI player, I do not Sonar 2024 to include a internal GM player to Sonar 2024 at the moment.  However, I can see why many Sonar users would want one.

[pwallie]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

No one here is going to know if here are plans for Sonar 2024 (soon to be Sonar 2025) to ever include a default General MIDI Player.  You would probably be better off asking the Bakers at support@cakewalk.com.

@Jonathan Sasor wouldn't know? he probably knows more than the support team at the email address 🤷‍♀️

[Sock Monkey]

19 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

@Jonathan Sasor wouldn't know? he probably knows more than the support team at the email address 🤷‍♀️

But notice how he totally avoided the topic. 

23 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

This is not accurate. The MS Wavetable synth is an external Windows component. When it's available for Sonar to use, it's visible as a port to enable. Typically you need to be in the MME driver mode to make that work (although using that in general is not recommended). 

Well this is not my findings. I just tried on 3 computers. I tried ASIO, Wasapi and MME. this is what the midi device screen looks like.  It used to show even in ASIO mode and many people used it for demoing midi files. They were posting like crazy when this happened.  

[pwallie]

1 hour ago, Sock Monkey said:

But notice how he totally avoided the topic.

 

4 hours ago, pwalpwal said:

i think the op question was "Is there plans for a GM default Player?" so, are there any plans to replace tts-1 for a new default gm player? (you're allowed to say no and not just divert from the question )