New computer - Midi recording weirdness

[jkoseattle]

New computer, installed Cakewalk anew. When recording Midi, I am getting triple notes recorded (one of which is length 0, the other two close to the correct length but not exactly the same as each other). What's more, while playback seems ok, scrubbing in PRV does not work. Anyone know what's going on?

[Promidi]

Updating to a new PC and installing Cakewalk should be pretty straight forward....

I am assuming you have updated all drivers and installed Windows updates (yes, even a new PC needs this).  Also update your Vdist runtimes.

Not much really to go on.  Need a bit more information about your configuration

What else have you tried so far.

Note: I have never had this issue in the 30 years of using Cakewalk (in various iterations).

[jkoseattle]

In my thirty FIVE years of using Cakewalk I have also never run into this. My input is M-Audio Hammer 88. Anyway, for anyone else running into this, SOLVED!

I've never had to change this setting, but my input for midi tracks has all been "Midi Omni" which has worked just fine. For whatever reason though, that was the problem. I simply changed the input to my piano and that solved it. Don't know why as it's never been an issue before, but moving on...

[Amberwolf]

If you're interested in finding the root cause, you might want to look at the MIDI driver list in Cakewalk, for all the ones that are checked (enabled).   

It might be that there are duplicate or broken drivers enabled, or a loopback (virtual midi port).  In this case, if you disable all but the ones you are actually using, then you can continue to use the Omni input.

[David Baay]

23 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

In my thirty FIVE years of using Cakewalk I have also never run into this.

In my 35 years I have encountered this issue many times, and it's come up on the forum many more times. As a result, I've always advocated selecting a specific channel of a specific port for Input to avoid duplicate/truncated notes and related issues.

[Amberwolf]

I wonder why it happens to some but not others?  What the specific system differences are?  

I don't *think* I've ever had it happen.   

The only time I know I got duped notes recorded, softsynths didn't exist yet, and I had just re-wired up a bunch of external MIDI gear in a "loop" so they were all able to send and receive data to / from the computer, and at least one of them was still setup internally as MIDI Thru when it shouldn't have been, so I got a continuous stutter of notes whenever I hit a key (teeny tiny delay due to all the cabling and devices in the loop). 

[azslow3]

Apart from external MIDI loops (including software), Cakewalk traditionally able to create "MIDI leaks" internally. As soon as at least one Synth has "Enable MIDI output" set, the fun can begin... Fortunately, the case is easy to detect: when in the selection list for possible MIDI inputs "All External Inputs" exists, there is at least one Soft synth with MIDI output enabled.

Note that "Synth MIDI output" is not automatically "through", it can be silent, through or processed/modified MIDI. Intentional is a possibility to  use VST MIDI processors (since Cakewalk doesn't support them as MIDI FXes). But it is easy to get it without intention.  Since that is plug-in and flag status dependent, some people may never hit the problem. Even when the route is already there, "enabling" conditions (playback/echo constellation) limit the time you hit the problem.

Edited October 17 by azslow3
spelling correction

[user 905133]

Over the years I have also had multiple MIDI notes.  In all of those cases, it was due to pilot error (recording MIDI notes from multiple devices / ports / paths).  For me the good thing about this issue is it can be fixed. Even once I started using CbB and had forgotten how I used to solve the problem, once I figured out the cause, the solution came back to me. 

In a way, it's like riding a bicycle--I still remember how, but at my age, some things are not as safe to do without taking precautions.  😉

1 hour ago, azslow3 said:

As soon as at least one Synth has "Enable MIDI output" set, the fun can begin... Fortunately, the case is easy to detect: when in the selection list for possible MIDI inputs "All External Inputs" exists, there is at least one Soft synth with MIDI output enabled.

Thanks for this tip.  If I ever get the multiple notes problem again, I will add this to my diagnostics routine (if it's not something I have already been checking, but just forgot about).  

Just remembered: I used to have both a usb midi interface and a 5-pin din connection to my computer. So, that can also be a cause to the multiple-notes issue. Again, it's pilot error and the solution is easy--avoid recording the same midi data from multiple devices / ports (hardware and / or software).

In case its not clear, I am not asking for help solving a problem; I am just trying to add some additional information in hopes that it helps others understand possible causes and solutions.

12 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

I wonder why it happens to some but not others?  What the specific system differences are?  

. . . I had just re-wired up a bunch of external MIDI gear in a "loop" so they were all able to send and receive data to / from the computer, and at least one of them was still setup internally as MIDI Thru when it shouldn't have been . . . .

Yup!!!!  Been there; done that!!!!  

[sjoens]

"In my thirty FIVE years of using Cakewalk I have also never run into this." - one forum user

"In my 35 years I have encountered this issue many times, and it's come up on the forum many more times." - another forum user

Whether you do or don't seems a regular consensus on this forum and pretty well sums up Life with Cakewalk... or life with computer.  Anomalies can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere, and for anyreason.  Not to brag but I have a 100 page memoir to prove it.  If there's something wonky going on under the hood or with your routine, seems Cakewalk will be one of the 1st to protest.    ...I'm usually the 2nd. 

[Amberwolf]

14 hours ago, User 905133 said:

In a way, it's like riding a bicycle--I still remember how, but at my age, some things are not as safe to do without taking precautions.  😉

That's why I built a trike instead. 

(still have a pile of parts in the shed to rebuild the old bike version as a backup, but dunno if I'll ever be able to get back to it). 

[msmcleod]

FYI - to stop MIDI Output being enabled on newly inserted synths:

1. Open Synth Rack View
2. Click on the "Insert Synth Options" dialog button
3. Ensure "Enable MIDI Output if Available" is unchecked, then click OK.

[user 905133]

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

FYI - to stop MIDI Output being enabled on newly inserted synths:

1. Open Synth Rack View
2. Click on the "Insert Synth Options" dialog button
3. Ensure "Enable MIDI Output if Available" is unchecked, then click OK.

Thanks.  Good to know / be reminded that the default behavior for new synth insertions can be changed to "Enable MIDI Output if Available" for those users with music-making workflows that favor having it on.  Since I enable it manually only in the few cases where I need it, I am glad the default option is unchecked. 

I have been working on some synth performance/recording modalities that might eventually make more extensive use of synth-generated MIDI. So, when the time comes and I "Set it and Forget it," It will be good to have this setting to my debugging checklist.

[pwallie]

if enabling midi out on synths that support it causes "midi leaks" that screw stuff up, surely this is a bug report?

[msmcleod]

3 hours ago, bad gateway said:

if enabling midi out on synths that support it causes "midi leaks" that screw stuff up, surely this is a bug report?

Back in the hardware days, you had three flavours of MIDI ports:

1. MIDI In, MIDI Out, MIDI Thru  - where Thru was an exact copy of what came from In, and Out was whatever the device generated
2. MIDI In, MIDI Out  - MIDI Out only had what the device generated
3. MIDI In, MIDI Out/Thru  - here, the MIDI Out had both what came from MIDI In and whatever the device generated.

There is no MIDI Thru in software synths, so it's up to the plugin vendors to decide what their MIDI Out does - i.e.  some behave like (2) above, and some behave like (3).

If you have one that behaves like (3), then the synth will essentially repeat whatever it received from the MIDI track.

If you have another track that is set to "All MIDI Inputs", then it'll receive MIDI from that soft synth.

This isn't a bug - it's just how it behaves.  You just need to be aware of your MIDI routing.

 

[pwallie]

2 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

If you have another track that is set to "All MIDI Inputs", then it'll receive MIDI from that soft synth.

that's the fella

[azslow3]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

Back in the hardware days, you had three flavours of MIDI ports:
...
This isn't a bug - it's just how it behaves.  You just need to be aware of your MIDI routing.

Back in the hardware days, attaching one MIDI cable somewhere was exactly that, the signal was not magically distributed (by default) to all existing in the room not connected MIDI inputs 😏

Following that logic, "None" should not mean "Omni" and once existence of software MIDI outputs is detected and "All External Inputs" appears, "default Omni" logically should start point to it. I have hard time to imagine when current behavior is desired.

An output from a MIDI processor:

• is "specific", so for particular tracks. Than it should not participate in any "Omni" or "All".
• is general, to be used as "Omni". But it this case original MIDI stream (the Input) should be excluded from "Omni", at least there should be such option. And that is not possible.

If someone forget to shield (undesired) radio-frequency emission in one device and so all other devices around are immediately disturbed when the device is switched on, that can also be described as  "it's just how it behaves" with proposal to better shield all other devices. But I personally don't think that is ok 🤪

[Glenn Stanton]

sadly, the "none" = "omni all possible MIDI on the entire planet welcome here" has been around forever. possibly one of the best changes that could be made in the immediate future -> "none" = "none" (i don't want to receive MIDI from anyone). 🙂 

Edited October 18 by Glenn Stanton

[sjoens]

I have an empty port on the MIDI interface I label and use as NONE for this reason.

Not that it's an anomaly, but there are occasions when Cakewalk will randomly assign all inputs at once, or maybe 3 out of 5 available prompting me to physically check each and every track input before using them.

[msmcleod]

10 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

sadly, the "none" = "omni all possible MIDI on the entire planet welcome here" has been around forever. possibly one of the best changes that could be made in the immediate future -> "none" = "none" (i don't want to receive MIDI from anyone). 🙂 

FWIW, you do have the following options:

- Use "All External Inputs", which will exclude any soft synths.  This option appears as soon as a soft synth is inserted.
- Use an input preset

[Glenn Stanton]

7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

- Use "All External Inputs", which will exclude any soft synths.  This option appears as soon as a soft synth is inserted.
- Use an input preset

i know. i have it preset in my templates so it's all set up. still not the same as "None". maybe switch the text to "Omni" instead of "None" to remove new folks confusion.

[msmcleod]

28 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

i know. i have it preset in my templates so it's all set up. still not the same as "None". maybe switch the text to "Omni" instead of "None" to remove new folks confusion.

If you uncheck "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" in Preferences->MIDI->Playback and Recording, it'll stay set to None.