Jim McDougall Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I am a longtime Cakewalk/Sonar user(decades). I have the new Sonar installed and trying to connect various of my control surfaces and there is little to support modern control surfaces. I have a Roli blocks setup that is almost useless with Sonar. In the ACT definitions, there is nothing that allows me to take midi events and map them to Sonar functions like start recording a clip, stop recording a clip, play a clip and so on. Although Sonar can record MPE, there is no indicator I can set to identify the track as an MPE track. I have the capability to build expansive Midi controllers via OpenDeck but the Control Surface capabilities of Sonar aren 't any better now than they were more than a decade ago. I have sat down and mapped all the midi generated commands from the MidiPlus SmartPad and it is extremely capable although you cannot edit it. It appears to be a complete emulation of the Novation-S. The ACT controller needs to be upgraded to both allow any midi event to be mapped to a Sonar function and as a follow through clips should be able to be easily defined as loops. ACt should also provide two communications so that it can provide feedback to the controller for LEDs. Currently Mackie control is the only two control surface supported and that is also ancient. While I understand that many here produce in a very linear fashion, and that will continue to hold true for film and stage, modern music is branching from this linear recording paradigm - parts will remain linear but as everyone is seeing, there is now another large branch based around clips and loops being combined with linearity. While I understand the effort to migrate Sonar to Bandlab Calkwalk Sonar from a development and coding perspective, at some point we need to feel that what has been an ignored part of core Sonar functionality and is in dire need of modernization is going to be addressed. I see all this effort going into plugins and VST handling and while that is good, it doesn't help if the only way I can control that is via a mouse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalpwal Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 back in the day cakewalk finally made their control surface sdk public, but i guess not many hardware manufacturers picked it up... i think @azslow3 has some experience with it? https://github.com/Cakewalk/Cakewalk-Control-Surface-SDK /goodluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azslow3 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I don't think OP is a human which want use some control surfaces with Sonar... For me it looks like AI generated text for subject "Cakewalk can't work with Ableton controllers, Sonar is not Live" 😏 I mean apart from mentioned "subject", almost all statements are wrong or have questionable meaning. Well, sometimes people also write something like that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McDougall Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 I can assure you I am an OI (Organic Intelligence). So, if my statements are wrong, please explain how I can configure a Roli Block Looper to start recording a clip from a button and stop from a button and play from a button as I am playing or how to configure Sonar to work with a MidiPlus SmartPad. Fewer and fewer control surfaces are supporting Mackie because of its limited functionality. Reality is, that most new controllers are in fact, designed to work with Ableton Live. Whether you are playing "Live" or not, the reality is that most new control surfaces are now designed to the Ableton standard, just like in the old days most controllers were designed to support the Mackie standard. Sonar does not necessarily have to be a 'Live' environment, but it does need to support modern controller functionality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azslow3 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Ableton Live has specific workflow and related surfaces like SmartPad are that workflow oriented. You can control Cakewalk/Sonar with any controller, but it has different workflow and so "controllable" functions are also different. There are many "not Ableton Live" oriented controllers. And they are still more or less "Mackie like". Like mixers and consoles. Some people still record what they play on normal music instruments, without wish for "if I jump twisting my hands over head, my controller produce super-expressive music...". Drumming with drums, play guitar, etc. Sure at some point you want "record in a loop" (and that is supported by Cakewalk/Sonar and can be triggered from controllers), but that is not the same as recording "loops". And many (most) DAWs are still related workflow oriented. ACT is a C++ API. It is bi-directional. If you don't want program in C++, you can use AZ Controller. "ACT MIDI" and "General Surface" are simpler (bi-directional response in general requires controller specific logic, it can't be generic). If you don't want AZ Controller and your controller doesn't provide Cakewalk support - that was your choice to buy such device. It is controller producers who are responding for supporting or not supporting particular DAW, ask them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 But are you willing to take the turing test? 😜 Re more friendly surface support yes we have lots room for improvement and I’m sure azslow himself would attest to that, but there is a lot that can be done today albeit differently from other DAW’s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astraios Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Vor 12 Stunden sagte Jim McDougall: . Ich kann Ihnen versichern, dass ich ein OI (Organic Intelligence) bin. .. die Realität ist, dass die meisten neuen Bedienoberflächen jetzt nach dem Ableton-Standard gestaltet sind, genau wie in den alten Tagen die meisten Controller entwickelt wurden, um den Mackie-Standard zu unterstützen. Sonar muss nicht unbedingt eine "Live"-Umgebung sein, aber es muss moderne Controller-Funktionen unterstützen. Ich gehe davon aus, dass es egal ist, ob ich hier meinen Senf dazu gebe, aber ich denke auch, dass das Mackie-Protokoll aus der Mode gekommen ist. Mich würde nur interessieren, wer der Entwicklung eines neuen, besseren Systems im Weg steht, denn es liegt auf der Hand, dass der Wunsch nach MIDI remote für immer mehr Nutzer attraktiv geworden ist. Unmengen an Hardware-Midi-Controllern werden entwickelt und verkauft... Sorry an alle technischen DAW-Professoren für meinen unreifen Beitrag, aber ich kann einfach nicht den Mund halten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalpwal Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 9 minutes ago, Astraios said: Ich gehe davon aus, dass es egal ist, ob ich hier meinen Senf dazu gebe, aber ich denke auch, dass das Mackie-Protokoll aus der Mode gekommen ist. Mich würde nur interessieren, wer der Entwicklung eines neuen, besseren Systems im Weg steht, denn es liegt auf der Hand, dass der Wunsch nach MIDI remote für immer mehr Nutzer attraktiv geworden ist. Unmengen an Hardware-Midi-Controllern werden entwickelt und verkauft... Sorry an alle technischen DAW-Professoren für meinen unreifen Beitrag, aber ich kann einfach nicht den Mund halten it's a fair question, mackie is "grandfathered in" like pro tools, but ableton and presonus are the only ones making progress with controllers these days, presonus because they also make the things, but there's no common standard ( i have an akai apc40 but ableton soon switched to their own push things, dunno who makes them, apc40 wasn't very useful with sonar, but is a joy still with live) i think cake missed a big opportunity when they partnered with roland (i also have a edirol ua-1000, decent bit of kit) but again it didn't happen, i do wonder why cakewalk couldn't make such partnerships work 🤷♀️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urock Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I acquired an old CM Labs MotorMix. Does anyone know if that is supported in new Sonar? I haven't demoed new Sonar yet but I seem to recall the MotorMix being supported in old SONAR. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr No Name Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 The developers will need to develop SONAR Live. only solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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