Automation clicks and pops

[Helios.G]

Hey everyone,

I posted this in the Q&A section, but I never seem to get replies over there, so I'm reposting here.  If that's against the rules, I apologize to the mods.  I dealt with this specific issues a long time ago, but since I hadn't needed to use this again for my normal workflow, I sort of forgot it was an issue for me.  This weekend I was working on my gainstaging and clean up on a mix I'm working.  Some of the tracks are very dynamic.  Usually I'd hit these with stacked compression, but I decided to go in and automate clip gain on some trouble spots.  This worked great for the most part, but in some sections there are audible clicks and pops where the automation is relatively close to another node.  I'm not sure if there is a way to work around this, but I spent hours getting these the way I want, only to hear these noises after the fact.  Anybody know a solution to this that doesn't involve undoing everything?  Thanks.

[Max Arwood]

A graphic snapshot of the nodes and a short audio clip might help. Are there jumps in the automation? Have you tried to smooth the nodes a little? I understand if this is not possible.

[Helios.G]

42 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

A graphic snapshot of the nodes and a short audio clip might help. Are there jumps in the automation? Have you tried to smooth the nodes a little? I understand if this is not possible.

Hey Max, I can't share a clip, cause I'm certain the client wouldn't approve, but here's a photo of the offending spot.  There are several like this one, but this is the one that I noticed initially.  Also, when taking this screenshot, I noticed that zooming in to the wave form made it go away, but when I controlled F the project back to normal, the pops came back. 

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Instead of jumping vertically up/down between sections, try offsetting the nodes ever so slightly so that the line goes up/down on a bit of a diagonal.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Bristol_Jonesey

[Helios.G]

5 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Instead of jumping vertically up/down between sections, try offsetting the nodes ever so slightly so that the line goes up/down on a bit of a diagonal.

Thanks Jonesey, I will try this and report back.

[Helios.G]

1 hour ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Instead of jumping vertically up/down between sections, try offsetting the nodes ever so slightly so that the line goes up/down on a bit of a diagonal.

Hey Jonesey, sorry to report, no dice.  It seemed to help in some instances, and in others it didn't do much of anything at all.  I might just end up deleting the offending sections and keep it moving.  I can't keep pulling my hair out with this for too long, or I won't finish.  Thanks for trying to help.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

So whereabouts in the clip is this happening? Is it on a transition point or on a linear section of envelope?

[Max Arwood]

It's hard to tell how steep the slopes are, because there is no indication of the zoom level. What is the sound of this track? or what virtual instrument?

[bvideo]

How about "envelope segment shape"? You can change the straight lines between nodes to curves. Perhaps your envelope nodes happen at inconvenient points in the wavevorm where a sudden change in gain causes clicks. Perhaps using a curve makes the change not so clicky.

Quote

1. Set the track’s Edit Filter control to the desired automation parameter (Track Automation or Clip Automation).

2. Move the cursor over the segment of the envelope that lies between the two nodes until the double-ended arrow appears, then right-click the envelope and choose one of the following shapes on the pop-up menu:

Jump. This choice causes the envelope to make a ninety degree jump where the envelope reaches the second node. SONAR displays jumps with a dotted line, meaning that there is automation data at the nodes where the dotted line begins and ends, but not where the line itself is.

Linear. This choice draws a straight line between the two nodes.

Fast Curve. This choice draws a curve between the two nodes that changes value rapidly at first, but more slowly toward the end of the curve.

Slow Curve. This choice draws a curve between the two nodes that changes value slowly at first, but more rapidly toward the end of the curve.

 

[Helios.G]

2 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

So whereabouts in the clip is this happening? Is it on a transition point or on a linear section of envelope?

It's right at the nodes, no matter where I offset them to, it pops.

[Helios.G]

2 hours ago, Max Arwood said:

It's hard to tell how steep the slopes are, because there is no indication of the zoom level. What is the sound of this track? or what virtual instrument?

It's a vocal track.

[Helios.G]

1 hour ago, bvideo said:

How about "envelope segment shape"? You can change the straight lines between nodes to curves. Perhaps your envelope nodes happen at inconvenient points in the wavevorm where a sudden change in gain causes clicks. Perhaps using a curve makes the change not so clicky.

 

I didn't know this, how does one change the shape of the envelope?

[Helios.G]

1 hour ago, pwal³ said:

possibly to do with the fx you have on the track? (do you still get the p&c's on an audio only/no fx track?)

Sorry, no fx yet.  I was gainstaging and doing the static mix only, so I hadn't even gotten to that point yet.

[Lynn Wilson]

40 minutes ago, Helios.G said:

I didn't know this, how does one change the shape of the envelope?

Right click on the envelope to change the curve shape.  Also, when offsetting the nodes, don't be afraid to zoom all the way in if necessary.

[Helios.G]

6 minutes ago, Lynn Wilson said:

Right click on the envelope to change the curve shape.  Also, when offsetting the nodes, don't be afraid to zoom all the way in if necessary.

Oh thank you! Greatly appreciated

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Might be a good idea at this point to talk about your driver settings. What are they? What are your buffers set to?

[Helios.G]

13 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Might be a good idea at this point to talk about your driver settings. What are they? What are your buffers set to?

project is set to 44.1khz and buffer is set to 2048.  I set it to that for most of my mixing sessions.  Apart from that, I have zero plugins instantiated right now, I was just gainstaging and setting up my static mix before I really dug in to processing.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Helios.G

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Sometimes, bouncing the clip to itself solves problems like this. Nothing to lose by trying it

[Helios.G]

1 minute ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Sometimes, bouncing the clip to itself solves problems like this. Nothing to lose by trying it

I was under the impression that automation didn't bounce to clip like that, huh, I'm trying it now.  

[Bristol_Jonesey]

No, the automation doesn't, but the audio will, and might cure it. Bit of a long shot but you never know