X-53mph Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Hi guys, This is totally unrelated to Cakewalk (unless they plan on going Linux) but I recently resurrected my old HP Pavilion laptop (which was my main DAW for years) and installed Linux. It's powerful enough to run the most recent Ubuntu release without trouble. I'm interested in whether anyone is using a Linux system as a DAW, and if so what might be some recommendations to install. I'm going to give Ardour a try, maybe Reaper. Any other ideas. I like the idea of getting away from an advertising centred OS, which is what Microsoft, Google and Apple have all become. All suggestions happily accepted. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Reaper and Ardour are probably your best choices - maybe also look at Harrison Mixbus (which is based on Ardour), and Rosegarden. Your main issues however are going to be audio interface drivers and plugin compatibility. RME do linux drivers for their older interfaces, but AFAIK no-one is doing linux drivers for more modern audio interfaces. Plugin support for linux however is very limited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I think the best deal in DAW software for Linux right now is Studio One Pro on the Hybrid+ plan. $179 buys you a perpetual license and a year's subscription to all of PreSonus' Studio One+ content and services. Just Pro alone gives you a lot of FX and instruments, and the Studio One+ stuff gives you many more. Of course, the license grants you the privilege of using the software in Windows or MacOS if the Linux build turns out not to work for you. I have no personal experience, so if you're interested, check their forums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 23 hours ago, msmcleod said: Reaper and Ardour are probably your best choices - maybe also look at Harrison Mixbus (which is based on Ardour), and Rosegarden. Your main issues however are going to be audio interface drivers and plugin compatibility. RME do linux drivers for their older interfaces, but AFAIK no-one is doing linux drivers for more modern audio interfaces. Plugin support for linux however is very limited. Yet more reasons why Linux is not ready for prime time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I forgot, Waveform is another DAW that has a Linux version. Also a free version. As a strategy, I would first try one of the DAW's that also has Windows and Mac versions, because then if the Linux thing doesn't pan out, I wouldn't have sunk anything (money, time) into a DAW that I wouldn't be able to continue with on a commercial platform. Not to be defeatist, but it is likely that REAPER, Studio One, Waveform and Mixbus are more likely to have features that the industry has accepted as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Young Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 On 4/6/2024 at 2:35 PM, Byron Dickens said: Yet more reasons why Linux is not ready for prime time. more like never I like what Jim says about Linux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) Whether we think it's viable or not, some people want to try it for themselves. Linux is fine for many things (server, office apps), but I don't think it's there yet for audio and video production work. If someone can get it to work for them for those tasks, more power to them. They'll find out what they'll find out, why wee-wee on their parade? The way I see it, @53mph is trying it so that I don't have to. I hope he reports back and lets us know how it went. If he says it wasn't that bad, then I'll know that Linux has changed in the many years since I tried to do anything with it beyond office apps and listening to music and watching videos. If he says that he tried it and it frustrated him, then I'll know that not enough has changed. With the presence of REAPER, Studio One, and Waveform on the platform, the Linux mob can't claim that the reason Linux is such a PITA is because boo-hoo, the big developers aren't brave enough to support it. REAPER is the tinkerer's DAW of choice on any platform, Studio One is an industry leader, and Waveform is yet another nice alternative, with a completely free to use version. The apps have arrived, now it's up to the Linux developers to come up with the equivalent to WASAPI and Core Audio. Edited April 8 by Starship Krupa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) My intention isn't to rain on anyone's parade. I've spent nearly my entire adult life using PC DAWs. Started with Quad Studio (virtually unusable), moved to S.A.W. (rock-solid), and then Cakewalk Pro Audio 4.0 (first version to support both MIDI and Audio recording). For those of us who lived thru the first 30 years of PC DAW development. Waiting for rock-solid super low round-trip latency Waiting for realtime plugins And then waiting for high quality realtime plugins And waiting even further for tools like Melodyne, Stem separation, etc Why step backward 30 years? Other than ideology, I can't think of any practical reason to consider Linux as a serious DAW platform. If you want to experiment, solve problems... it can be an interesting learning experience (similar to building a Hackintosh). If you're looking for a practical full-featured DAW (including top-tier virtual-instruments and plugins), you're going to be waiting for a LONG time. I've said this many times: Linux DAWs are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. People complain about Windows as a DAW platform... because it's so wide-open (to support many different hardware/software configurations). Linux has many distros... and for the most part, you're left to problem-solve on your own. Another thing to think about is that there's no real profit in Linux plugin development (because the market is extremely niche). Factor in a tough business economy... and risk-management. If you're the head of a software company... and you're responsible for how development resources are spent, are you going to risk your career on Linux... or go with a larger proven market (Windows/OSX)? All that said, if you're willing to live with the limitations/quirks/eccentricities of Linux as a DAW platform, more power to you. Edited April 8 by Jim Roseberry 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-53mph Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 Just to give some feedback - I downloaded a version of Fruity Loops for Linux and Reaper. Both load up just fine with their demo projects. The problem, as everyone mentioned, is the Audio drivers. I could get my Behringer UMC22 to work, but not in any useful sense. The audio spluttered and stuttered continuously. I'm too old and tired to go down the troubleshooting route in the world of Linux. I'm going to nip this in the bud now before I waste any more time whipping that dead donkey. Thanks for all your input guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 6 hours ago, 53mph said: The audio spluttered and stuttered continuously. I'm too old and tired to go down the troubleshooting route in the world of Linux. I'm going to nip this in the bud now before I waste any more time whipping that dead donkey. You were curious and you gave it a shot, and I thank you for doing it so that I don't have to. The Linux rah-rahs have been overselling its capabilities for 25 years. It's still great for keeping old low-end hardware useful for things like web browsing and office apps. I have an old iMac that was hopelessly slow, wiped it and put on some light Linux build or other and it works great. Pretty much useless, as I have other computers to do those mundane tasks, and nobody else I know is in need of a computer that can only do those tasks. But it was a fun exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Young Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 23 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: You were curious and you gave it a shot, and I thank you for doing it so that I don't have to. The Linux rah-rahs have been overselling its capabilities for 25 years. It's still great for keeping old low-end hardware useful for things like web browsing and office apps. I have an old iMac that was hopelessly slow, wiped it and put on some light Linux build or other and it works great. Pretty much useless, as I have other computers to do those mundane tasks, and nobody else I know is in need of a computer that can only do those tasks. But it was a fun exercise. I tried that Linux train enough to finally realize that Lucy is never going to hold that football for Charlie Brown. If one wants a Linux DAW buy the Ableton Push standalone for $3K. Linux does exist in the DAW world. Edited April 9 by kitekrazy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Young Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/8/2024 at 7:53 AM, Jim Roseberry said: My intention isn't to rain on anyone's parade. I've spent nearly my entire adult life using PC DAWs. Started with Quad Studio (virtually unusable), moved to S.A.W. (rock-solid), and then Cakewalk Pro Audio 4.0 (first version to support both MIDI and Audio recording). For those of us who lived thru the first 30 years of PC DAW development. Waiting for rock-solid super low round-trip latency Waiting for realtime plugins And then waiting for high quality realtime plugins And waiting even further for tools like Melodyne, Stem separation, etc Why step backward 30 years? Other than ideology, I can't think of any practical reason to consider Linux as a serious DAW platform. If you want to experiment, solve problems... it can be an interesting learning experience (similar to building a Hackintosh). If you're looking for a practical full-featured DAW (including top-tier virtual-instruments and plugins), you're going to be waiting for a LONG time. I've said this many times: Linux DAWs are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. People complain about Windows as a DAW platform... because it's so wide-open (to support many different hardware/software configurations). Linux has many distros... and for the most part, you're left to problem-solve on your own. Another thing to think about is that there's no real profit in Linux plugin development (because the market is extremely niche). Factor in a tough business economy... and risk-management. If you're the head of a software company... and you're responsible for how development resources are spent, are you going to risk your career on Linux... or go with a larger proven market (Windows/OSX)? All that said, if you're willing to live with the limitations/quirks/eccentricities of Linux as a DAW platform, more power to you. This should be a sticky for Stop Whining About Importing to Linux. Like every larger DAW developer has said it's not worth the investment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: They need to work on the art of "shut up". Perhaps. As early as 1988 or so, when online forums meant dial-up BBSes, there have always been users of some platform or other who believe that if they just advocate hard enough for their platform, it will step into big time popularity. In those days it was the Amiga. Amiga users would not STFU about how great they were, how they represented the future of computing with all their multimedia features. Trouble was, they represented the future. What was happening in the present was that people wanted office apps like word processing, databases, groupware, spreadsheets, desktop publishing, etc. That was what was driving adoption and growth. Microsoft saw this and stepped up, and took over the world. Employees could learn Word, Excel, etc., and drop into any company. The multimedia stuff, while fun, was a niche market by comparison. The Amiga had office apps, but they were from tiny vendors. Not incidentally, on the hardware side, businesses are wary of single-source vendors. Apple and Commodore, with their locked down hardware platforms, were less desirable. Buy or lease a pile of Dells, Gateways, Compaqs, HP's. Otherwise you're at the whim of one manufacturer, who could change the game on you with impunity. Witness the recent developments with Apple Silicon. Not saying that there's anything wrong with Apple Silicon, quite the contrary, but it's caused everyone who develops for MacOS to have to re-do their software to be able to run on it. Anyway, when Linux came along, it became the next one in this role. It got so bad in the 90's that I swore to all of my computing friends that I'd never touch Linux with a 10' pole because of the endless blah blah. Instead, I tried working with FreeBSD. What finally got me to break my promise was Ubuntu, which finally delivered on the promise of being able to rival Windows for desktop use. OpenOffice was great, all the browsers worked, and even some plug-and play stuff. But by that time, Windows and MacOS were already at a higher level. Now we had high res gaming, video editing, DAW's, etc. all of which by their nature have to cozy up to the OS to squeeze every bit of performance and compatibility. Someday, Linux will be able to be a decent platform for gaming and multimedia creation, but it ain't someday, it's now, and there's no sense in adopting a platform where you'll be struggling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 28 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: every larger DAW developer has said it's not worth the investment TBF, PreSonus is a larger DAW developer and have tossed their hat into the Linux ring. At this point, I'd say to the Linux advocates "you got your top tier DAW, so you can't use the excuse that big developers are 'cowardly.'" If they're right, then Studio One on Linux would be the tipping point, but it ain't gonna do it. At least when one drops into this forum and starts begging for CS to go Linux, we have somewhere to point them. Studio One is at least every bit as capable as CS, and they've jumped into Linux, so reward them for their bravery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Young Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: TBF, PreSonus is a larger DAW developer and have tossed their hat into the Linux ring. At this point, I'd say to the Linux advocates "you got your top tier DAW, so you can't use the excuse that big developers are 'cowardly.'" If they're right, then Studio One on Linux would be the tipping point, but it ain't gonna do it. At least when one drops into this forum and starts begging for CS to go Linux, we have somewhere to point them. Studio One is at least every bit as capable as CS, and they've jumped into Linux, so reward them for their bravery. As Jim said maybe they need a tax write off. Let me know when Pro Tools goes this direction. The issue is hardware support. I best Presonus who no seems to come up with recent stupid ideas probably has one person working on it part time and probably a relative of someone higher up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, kitekrazy said: As Jim said maybe they need a tax write off. Let me know when Pro Tools goes this direction. The issue is hardware support. I best Presonus who no seems to come up with recent stupid ideas probably has one person working on it part time and probably a relative of someone higher up. Pro Tools, the Word Perfect of DAW's. I don't consider them an industry leader these days. I know the issue is hardware support, and the Linux rah-rahs' lament/excuse has been that since the big guys don't ship DAW's for Linux, there's no incentive for interface makers to provide drivers, blah blah blah. My theory is that PreSonus just got tired of the whining and slapped it together to shut them up. The DAW that Linux users should adopt and be happy with is REAPER, which has similar appeal and even UX. Then they can join the REAPER hordes and clutter up discussions of other products with their preaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcmid Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: Pro Tools, the Word Perfect of DAW's. I don't consider them an industry leader these days. I had to smile when I saw this. When I was involved with Apache OpenOffice, we had this never-ending unresolved issue from Word Perfect folks who wanted the WP feature for controlling things like spans of bold, italic, etc. They kept explaining what it was like on the WP UI and how simple it should be. But of course the kind of styling (not unlike HTML CSS) in ODF ODF and all OpenOffice.org clones just doesn't have that conceptual model, although Microsoft Word sort of does. Oddly, Microsoft FrontPage did have a nice way of making hierarchical controls visible to the user and editable. (I should say does have it, since I am still running it. But then I also have a Toshiba laptop running Windows XP Tablet Edition.) I remember the Amiga advocacy. I smile about that, and am proud of having built my Heathkit CP/M machines. I don't miss them though. Perhaps the strangest case, though, were the folks whose first programming language was Postscript. Edited April 10 by orcmid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 WP be like "alt-crtl-shift-K" is "save". can't be more intuitive than that... LOL. i think MS Word still offers WP keystrokes as an option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Young Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 12 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: Pro Tools, the Word Perfect of DAW's. I don't consider them an industry leader these days. I know the issue is hardware support, and the Linux rah-rahs' lament/excuse has been that since the big guys don't ship DAW's for Linux, there's no incentive for interface makers to provide drivers, blah blah blah. My theory is that PreSonus just got tired of the whining and slapped it together to shut them up. The DAW that Linux users should adopt and be happy with is REAPER, which has similar appeal and even UX. Then they can join the REAPER hordes and clutter up discussions of other products with their preaching. I'll go with Jim's theory as a tax write off. As for Pro Tools if you wanna work with the big boys you better know how to use it, They are the industry standard and if they ever consider the make believe world of Linux they and Steinberg will set the stage. I can't overlook the "lets try to make a Linux version and let's see how far we can put people into a sub. Developing for 3 platforms will only create **** development and let's not forget the endless Linux distros. Read Jim's post over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) why can't it be a tax write off and to get them to shut up? win-win... ? Edited April 10 by Glenn Stanton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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