Does Music Theory REALLY Kill Creativity?

[Old Joad]

 

[hockeyjx]

I do think sometimes, the "rules" can box some folks in ...in other words, very rigidly trained musicians tend to be more beholden to rules than people who don't know any better.

I am thinking of someone like Tori Amos, who had chops very early on; her heart led her away from classical training as she wanted to do her own thing.
 

[Matt Rayner]

My mother was a classically-trained pianist, and could sight read. 
My friends were astounded that she could play Zep's Rain Song.
She could even knock out a decent boogie-woogie if she had the dots,  but improvise? Not a note!
Knowing theory never hindered Frank Zappa's creativity though.

[Tim Smith]

I don't know why they call it music theory. It really isn't a theory it's a scientifically proven set of music rules.

My first training was musical scales and all of that interconnectedness that happens musically between notes and scales. There is something to be said for sight reading, knowing keys etc. 

At one end of the spectrum there are those who are really just human music computers incapable of making music unless it's on a page in front of them. They can't make music without the page. At the other end are those who don't prefer the written page. 

I have had the priviledge to have been in many different circles. One of my best friends played as a Nashsville studio musician and tours. He had guitar theory. I'm not sure how much of it he uses, but man can he play. He is seldom looking at anything unless he is just glancing at the the key if it's a tune he isn't familiar with. 

Another friend of mine is a classically trained pianist and is training in Baltimore to professionally conduct orchestras. I played under him a few times and with the other guy. Both very nice people. One is far more layed back, he's like here let's play this. The other guy is like a human metronome. If he hears anything off by 1/2 beat he knows it. Not that the other guy doesn't too. I play better under the layed back personality and feel more tense under the human metronome. 

Having been in both orchestras and bands I can say hands down I prefer the band any day. Both use the same rules, so I'm not sure why one is just more fun and less rigid to me personally. 

Bands playing covers is probably no different than orchestras playing the classics in terms of creativity I don't see how it's there if all one does is play another's material. 

Playing one's own material is creative. A little theory never hurts, like if you sing which keys do you sing best in? I have a low range and a high range and in some songs I am changing up ranges in one song. That's generally the only reason I might use a different key. Or if a key is easier to play I might change it.

I never learned to read bass clef and when I have sang in chiors I mostly had a tenor part. The way I picked it up was singing next to a person who was a good sight reader and a tenor, but that sort of short circuits the brain after awhile because your brain wants to see the notes in treble clef.  I'm still not "good" at that but I can squeak by. Simply learning how my part was supposed to sound helped.

When I played bass guitar we generally didn't use notation. We used chord charts, so I would just play around the low notes. I consider myself a hack on bass, but I have played it quite a lot. It's just a guitar that's lower and missing strings . It uses a different technique though. Never used a pick.

Same with piano. I would just play the tune based on the chord structures. The violin is in E and that translates well to mandolin. Heck if I could play it on violin mandolin should be a breeze. Never owned one.

One area I have some interest in is baritone electric guitars. Just curious how different it would be to play one. Not even sure what the ranges are for one. 

We have lots of things now that can spoil us like Ableton's introduction of scales and tunings. Cubase already had something similar.

 

Edited March 20 by Tim Smith

[craigb]

It's always good to know the rules so you can break them when necessary! 

[Byron Dickens]

Music theory is not rules!

[hockeyjx]

2 hours ago, craigb said:

It's always good to know the rules so you can break them when necessary! 

I think, for some, if the rules get ingrained too much, they seem hard to break just from observation.

[Jesse Screed]

https://www.soundclick.com/jessescreed

[OutrageProductions]

I look at it like flight training; you must learn how to take off, fly level, and land using VFR rules, then graduate to IFR experience, and then you are free, after growing a pair, to do the barrel roll and split-ess to your hearts desire.

But you never lose sight of the horizon, the floor, or the ceiling, else you be in trouble. 

Edited March 19 by OutrageProductions

[kitekrazy]

Does Music Theory REALLY Kill Creativity?  No but forums do.

[Rain]

Western music history seems to demonstrate that until very recently, few people if any would have thought to ask that question.

Actually, the most mind-blowing creative musicians were typically well versed in theory - from Bach to Beethoven to Stravinsky to Miles Davis and Oscar Peterson to Zappa.

It seems that it's often people with a more limited set of skills that feel that knowledge can endanger their creativity. I say that as someone with very limited skills and knowledge myself, and as an huge fan of some of those same musicians, such as John Lennon.

 

Edited March 20 by Rain

[craigb]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

Western music history seems to demonstrate that until very recently, few people if any would have thought to ask that question.

Actually, the most mind-blowing creative musicians were typically well versed in theory - from Bach to Beethoven to Stravinsky to Miles Davis and Oscar Peterson to Zappa.

It seems that it's often people with a more limited set of skills that feel that knowledge can endanger their creativity. I say that as someone with very limited skills and knowledge myself, and as an huge fan of some of those same musicians, such as John Lennon.

 

Well, in theory anyway...

?

[Tim Smith]

18 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

Music theory is not rules!

Maybe not. That was sort of how I always seen it.  One can either do something and explain later it or explain something they  do or don't do.Or just do it with no need to explain it.

Like " I did this, now what is it?" . A music major would dissect it into what they think it is according to the rules. But while music is an explanation of tone associations and groups, it's the scientific way of looking at it. At the very least, we tune before we play and make sure we are all in the same key often not caring about the system behind it.

Many musicians will not play a notated piece exactly as written, so some creativity can be there in the interpretation of it, but if playing covers that needs to be pretty spot on.

 

 

[Bapu]

Who is The Ory? Never 'erd uvum.

[Tim Smith]

13 minutes ago, pwal³ said:

so is not "following the rules" actually "cheating"?

Prolly not because I don't think those rules can be broken. i.e. jazz. You would just be combining rules in unorthodox ways.

I have been scolded by people who play piano for hitting the keys too hard, and unlike a keyboard where most only use a sustain pedal, the piano has three pedals. A teacher would say this is the "right way" some play the right way automatically while others don't.  Probably same with guitar. A person can know all of the "theory" and be a terrible guitar player, while others disregard all the rules i.e. Hendrix and blow the art form out of the water.

That's getting away from the theory though and leaning more into the ways we are supposed to play an instrument.  There could possiblty be limitations in playing an instrument the way they tell us to. In the case of guitar, many have been hacks and out played the pros. With violin, you pretty much have to play it the way they tell you  or you will limit yourself later on and only be a "top of the neck" player.  That's the difference between classical and folk. 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Tim Smith

[Old Joad]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:40 AM, pwal³ said:

haha no of course not

agreed.

[michaelhanson]

My understanding has always been that theory was developed to explain why music works and sounds good.  It’s kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.   
 

When theory is not followed, but something still sounds good, then it’s often written in theory as an exception.   
 

I think it’s good and OK to understand theory, but I do think that it sometimes keeps people from coloring outside of the lines.  Some people can’t stand coloring outside of the lines and others find that to be interesting and creative.  
 

Similarly, blue is a primary color and that is a rule of design….but does the sky need to be painted blue.  

[craigb]

23 minutes ago, michaelhanson said:

It’s kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.

[Tim Smith]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:19 AM, kitekrazy said:

Does Music Theory REALLY Kill Creativity?  No but forums do.

I know but I'm kinda stuck here for now. Not a bad place to hang out, well sort of

Having creativity and not being able to use it is a lot like trying to make love to your wife when you have company in the house.

Not that I have any, but I can't even try right now.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, Tim Smith said:

I know but I'm kinda stuck here for now. Not a bad place to hang out, well sort of

Having creativity and not being able to use it is a lot like trying to make love to your wife when you have company in the house.

Not that I have any, but I can't even try right now.

There was a similar discussion on another forum about not making music because of forums, having to update software, looking for new products.

These Cakewalk forums are like a woman's knitting circle.