Backstage Pass and Sonar Pricing

[ancjava]

Wait, Do I understand correclt that for 15$  You get full new Sonar AND other backstage pass features? Sounds like a bargain to me.

[DeeringAmps]

7 minutes ago, ancjava said:

Do I understand correclt that for 15$  You get full new Sonar AND other backstage pass features?

Yes, that’s $15 a month. To my knowledge it has not been confirmed that BackStage Pass will always include Sonar. (If it was confirmed, I would “pop” for the $150 a year option) There remains much speculation and hand wringing. 
Unfortunately, that is all we know at this time. 

t

[57Gregy]

I think we need another forum called "Prognostications".

[John Vere]

I'm not sure why people keep saying " Everybody is going to subscriptions"??  That seems a misconception. 

I just was researching for the video I just made and I visited at least 14 other DAW websites and only Pro Tools was a subscription.  All the more popular DAW's are all cash sales.  Most have a few options starting with basic versions at affordable pricing.  What is shocking is the sticker price for the top tier versions of some of them. 

You can bet that the marketing folks at Bandlab have been studying those same pages I visited and using that as part of making the upcoming decisions on pricing.  So please stop overreacting about this. WE DON'T KNOW YET!  

And if it really concerns you why not send Bandlab a Email or use the  "contact us"  feature on the web site. Posting here might get a little notice from a few Cakewalk staff members but they have no control over this and it might even be doubtful Bandlab listens to their opinions. It is a good time to voice your concerns and it's great to share those with all of us, but that won't be heard by those who count. 

[Craig Anderton]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:33 AM, pwal³ said:

copy the studio one model, sub with extras/all or standard license for that current major version ?

Not just PreSonus - also Universal Audio, Avid, Waves, and Native Instruments, among others. It seems the industry is going in the Burger King direction - "have it your way."

The beauty of software is that the Bakers can tweak the model easily over time. Also, I can vouch from personal experience that making backend changes to accommodate different purchasing models can be a nightmare. 

IMHO the Bakers are doing a fine job of nurturing Sonar and keeping it alive and growing. I don't think there's any question they deserve compensation not only for their current efforts, but for the work put into the program while it was free. It seems the only question is what form that compensation should take.

 

[SVSX]

2 hours ago, njm255 said:

I would think a business calculates that more people would pay the cheaper subscription price than the higher perpetual license price. So in actuality the number of buyers would be lower than the number of subscribers. Also you'd have to take into account the length of a subscription. Will it be month to month where you can drop at any time or are you locked in for the year? Not to mention a lot of people forget they're even subscribed and will still be getting charged even if they don't use the product anymore. It's not really as simple as you say and subscriptions obviously are profitable because all these companies are moving in that direction. The corporate world won't waste time and energy on something that won't bring back a profit.

Bandlab's main goal is most likely to draw more people into the Bandlab ecosystem hence why this initial Sonar release is tied into a Bandlab subscription instead of being a separate release.  Perpetual licenses won't do that. We'll find out eventually.

I get your reasoning. But why not both? Why not try to grab the audience, which wants to own a piece of software like myself and try to gather the others with a subscription plan?

Just look into all the services you have to pay for nowadays: An average person has Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify/Apple/Youtube, Console Online Plan, then maybe something like Photoshop, UAD, Plugin Alliance, Distrokid, Office 365, Gym, and many more things.  Now we are witnessing everyone getting greedy and trying to get some of your money too. Either they're raising the prices, cutting features, or introduce the userbase to upgrade plans, while new competitors enter the market with their own services. I was very open to all of this, to a certain degree, but now not anymore. We reached the point of oversaturation and i'd rather buy something, if i need it, then pay them a pile of my hard earned money every month, till i cancel the service and lose access to everything.

[CSistine]

4 hours ago, njm255 said:

The corporate world won't waste time and energy on something that won't bring back a profit.

Don't forget there are trends! Even if it's not successful many people from universities believe in trends! It's stupid, but it's that easy sometimes!

[Pathfinder]

I don't claim to be a big business guy, but I don't get the, backend issues and extra $$$ cost if you , say, sell a perpetual license and subscriptions. It has been stated a few times so far.

So what are we talking here, the price of boxes and postage? So make it a download only. Serve cost.
Accountants to track sales vs subscriptions? I think accounts can handle both, we are not talking Microsoft Corp.here.
I still just do NOT see the logic in this decision. John V's post above and fine video shows that most daws and software companies SELL. Some subscribe and sell.  Cool idea!
FEW just subscribe. Just amazes me.
Also, I mentioned this before, Yes it was great having CW free with updates. But I am pretty sure the $$$ I spent on CW and ALL upgrades since the early 90's (I always upgraded to the end) kind of balances it out. 
Oh well..........

Edited March 22 by Pathfinder

[Jimbob Blues]

 

This horse just will not die, will it?

 

[Craig Anderton]

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I don't claim to be a big business guy, but I don't get the, backend issues and extra $$$ cost if you , say, sell a perpetual license and subscriptions. It has been stated a few times so far.

Here's an example. I did a preset pack for the Line 6 Helix. Subsequently, Line 6 came out with an update that improved many of the cab sounds. I made the changes for my own use, then approached Line 6 about offering a free update to people who had bought the original pack. They had no problem with the idea, but the company they were using to fulfill orders simply had no way to modify a system designed to sell things to new customers to a system designed to give free updates to existing customers and a different version than it had offered originally to new customers. I ended up including the revised presets with my downloadable Helix book.

I ran into the same issues with Sweetwater Publishing about offering periodic, free updates to my eBooks. To their credit, they modified their order processing to give users with previous versions free updates, but it wasn't a trivial undertaking. I believe they're still working on how they can modify the system to sell significant updates (e.g., like going from v1.0 to v2.0) at half-price to owners or previous editions.

I figured it would be easy to do...wrong. Despite Sweetwater being a technologically hip company, it took them quite a bit of effort to bulletproof the system.

[Heath Row]

They should sell tickets to the forums, the entertainment value is pure gold, they never fail to deliver

The Cakewalk Forums

Edited March 23 by Heath Row

[AB99]

It should be kept in mind that the purchasers generally do not "own" the software.   It is generally a "license" - which is something short of full ownership.  

So you can have permission to use it under certain contractual provisions.

I subscribe to Adobe Pro and Google Drive (5 T), Microsoft 365, etc.  Not an issue.  

Under the old Cakewalk/Sonar days, there was a one-time charge and there were charges for updates.  The need to buy the updates was often there.   Reliant operating systems changed, VST arose and changed, etc.  And there were unstable times in terms of the actual "owners" of the software - not the consumers and not really the software itself.

As stated before, if the Bakers do not get paid well, this will not be sustainable, and that is a lose-lose.  If Bandlab overcharges, then they will not make it in the market.   It seems that they know that.

For those that disdain subscriptions as stated on the forum, they are certainly entitled to their opinion and I think it is good that the opinion is voiced, so Bandlab knows that there is a group of people that feel that way, even if I am not so concerned.  

Now I am seriously going to open up some Skinny Pop!

 

[Pathfinder]

We all know we DO NOT OWN the software. That's been a thing, like forever.
The development of Sonar is obviously pretty much done. Yes updates will be needed down the road.
I get it's a bit more complicated than JUST a Subscription. 
Some how these other DAW companies miraculously manage to do it-offer both I mean-Or just sell! 

 

 

[Hillmy]

If I say anything anymore people will think I'm angry and just lock the thread. So I'm just here reading other people's post and reacting to the same thing I have been saying all along. ??

[Pathfinder]

Well, I guess I can say no more. I'm done and I'll just wait and see if I will be using New Sonar or not.
Will have to brush up on studio One and reaper. Although I am more familiar with Reaper.
Feel like I am leaving an old friend, well I am.
Wish it was different but I honestly believe they will stick with their subscription scheme and the hell with the rest of us 30+ years Cakewalk Users............

I was actually warned in another forum that I frequent years ago that this would happen. I argued for CW and said no way. They may have subscriptions but they also will sell it to us...........Guess they were right and I was wrong.    ? 

 

Edited March 23 by Pathfinder

[Starship Krupa]

47 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I honestly believe they will stick with their subscription scheme

What subscription scheme are you referring to? To my knowledge, Cakewalk have announced neither a subscription model nor a perpetual model for Sonar licensing.

They currently have something where you get access to a pre-release version of it with a BandLab membership. But it's only a pre-release, not the actual shipping version.

Did I miss something?

[CSistine]

7 hours ago, Heath Row said:

The Cakewalk Forums

Sorry, but it's misspelled:

HOT in Swedish (=threat in English)! ?

[Mr No Name]

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

We all know we DO NOT OWN the software. That's been a thing, like forever.
The development of Sonar is obviously pretty much done. Yes updates will be needed down the road.
I get it's a bit more complicated than JUST a Subscription. 
Some how these other DAW companies miraculously manage to do it-offer both I mean-Or just sell! 

 

 

you will own nothing and be happy.

[Hillmy]

3 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

What subscription scheme are you referring to? To my knowledge, Cakewalk have announced neither a subscription model nor a perpetual model for Sonar licensing.

They currently have something where you get access to a pre-release version of it with a BandLab membership. But it's only a pre-release, not the actual shipping version.

Did I miss something?

You missed a whole thread LOL! 

 

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, Hillmy said:

You missed a whole thread LOL! 

Quoting you from that topic:

Quote

This website https://www.cakewalk.com/next says:  "Cakewalk Next is still in development, but you can gain early access through Backstage Pass — an experimental program available to users with an active BandLab Membership."

Okay, so it's via an extension to the BandLab Backstage Pass membership, but it's still just an "early access," which phrase has been used for years in this forum by employees of BandLab to mean "feature complete but not yet released."

And that's what I thought.

There's still nothing definite one way or the other about how the released products are going to be priced. I agree that signs point to one option being like PreSonus' Studio One+ subscription, where the subscription grants the user access to a variety of things, one of which is use of the Studio One Pro DAW.

This Backstage Pass sounds similar and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like it continue once Sonar and Next are actually released. However, I would be very much surprised if there is not also a perpetual license option for Sonar.

People can go on and on about how the software industry is heading in the subscription direction, but the fact remains that for audio production software, there is exactly ONE single DAW that is subscription-only, which is Adobe Audition, not exactly a force in the DAW market. Even AVID still offers perpetual licenses for Pro Tools.

And AFAIK, the majority of DAW vendors have no subscription option. I'm not sure which ones do, other than PreSonus and AVID.

So yeah, trends in the software industry blah blah blah, but subscription-only is NOT a trend in the audio software industry. Adobe is the only one who do it, and I think the popularity of Audition speaks for how successful they have been with that. I don't know how well Studio One+ is doing, but it looks that as with BandLab, you get access to a whole bunch of stuff along with the DAW itself. I think that's a great way to do it: if you'd rather have people on subscription, let the subscription also give access to premium services.

The DAW that is said to be the most popular in the world right now, FL Studio, has pretty much the opposite licensing model: pay once and you really do get a "perpetual" license in that it grants you the right to use the product and all of its future versions as long as the product and the company exist. Same with MeldaProduction, a plug-in vendor I have watched grow in popularity.

One major player, Waves, tried to switch to subscription-only and they still washing off the smell of the crap that got slung at them for trying it, also they are completely back to the same old licensing model they had before: I get an email a day offering their plug-ins on sale at $19.99 each for perpetual licenses. Subscription is merely one of their options, along with bundles and singles.

I'm making the BIG distinction here between only selling licenses via subscription and having a subscription option. They are wildly different things. I'm a perpetual-only guy, but I also think that subscriptions are a great option to have for businesses and individuals who prefer to spread costs out or find it better for accounting reasons.

The thing I'm most looking forward to at Sonar's eventual release is finally shutting down the panicky speculation about pricing and licensing....the bottom line is that we don't know what the release pricing and licensing will be until it's announced.