Backstage Pass and Sonar Pricing

[Heath Row]

[Starship Krupa]

Wow, I wasn't kidding about Adobe Audition's status in the DAW world as the lone subscription-only product.

Out of curiosity I did a search for "Adobe Audition" on YouTube.

You know how DAW's like Cakewalk and FL Studio and Ableton Live and Cubase and REAPER and Studio One have "channels" where a user will post an ongoing series of videos about the DAW?

Yeah....not so much with Audition.

[David Baay]

TLDR

[Terry Kelley]

Hey, I still use Cool Edit 2000. Works like a champ and I have it integrated into CbB via AZSlow’s tools.  

That’s right, I live in the past!

Edited March 23 by Terry Kelley

[mettelus]

4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Wow, I wasn't kidding about Adobe Audition's status in the DAW world as the lone subscription-only product.

AFAIK, Audition CC still has no MIDI implementation so it has very limited usefulness as a DAW, but it does have features that make it a good wav editor (background noise removal, scripts, batch editing, and the like). I sampled a TD-9 sound module years ago and it took me 10 times longer to rename the samples than to create/run a script to isolate/save all of the samples from one massive recording. 99% of those features existed in Audition 3/4 before it went to CC, and not a lot of note has been updated since it did. Out of curiosity I checked program-specific updates on things within CC a few years ago and updates are not overly frequent. The simple fact that a couple apps have free alternatives (DaVinci Resolve for Premiere Pro, and Visual Studio Code for Dream Weaver) takes a lot of wind out of the subscription sails.

The Studio One+ is an odd one (someone posted they jumped off and just upgraded Studio One Pro, which was a prudent move). Unless you are doing notation, Notion isn't required, and it will host VSTis to boot, so sound packs are unnecessary... and Notion 6 hasn't been significantly updated in years now. Portions of the FAT Channel comes with Studio One Pro, and it costs roughly $60/year to keep current, but even then SOP 6 might be all most would need for their foreseeable future... as with most things, the 80/20 rule applies, so roughly 20% of a program's features will let you do 80% of your work. When new features begin to fall into the minutiae bucket is when to re-evaluate things.

Software is one of the few arenas where a product isn't just delivered (a lot is due to the internet, so they can rely on patches and updates). If people bought a car and the manufacturer said, "Yeah, we didn't think about headlights, but it is definitely on our upgrade radar! Just don't drive it a night." People would freak.

[John T]

29 minutes ago, mettelus said:

If people bought a car and the manufacturer said, "Yeah, we didn't think about headlights, but it is definitely on our upgrade radar! Just don't drive it a night." People would freak.

Sure, but you can't die in a DAW crash. It's not an especially meaningful comparison.

[John T]

I didn't say it couldn't be a horrifying trauma.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:17 PM, John Vere said:

You can bet that the marketing folks at Bandlab have been studying those same pages I visited and using that as part of making the upcoming decisions on pricing.  So please stop overreacting about this. WE DON'T KNOW YET!

I doubt they are. They don't even fix the bugs you are reporting, being more focused on telling you which content you can post or not in your channel about their product.

Personally, I don't see as much overreacting as happened when the commercial change was announced. That happens simply because we never get concrete answers on anything. It's either a half answer or the answer is everything which what you ask isn't. And that gets old fast. I find strange a company can come up with a whole marketing and revamp of things like forums, product pages and the like and a simple thing like communicating to potential customers  what their options are is a herculean task which takes several months and requires preparing the grounds several times for some reason.

[Jeremy Oakes]

1 hour ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

I doubt they are. They don't even fix the bugs you are reporting, being more focused on telling you which content you can post or not in your channel about their product.

Personally, I don't see as much overreacting as happened when the commercial change was announced. That happens simply because we never get concrete answers on anything. It's either a half answer or the answer is everything which what you ask isn't. And that gets old fast. I find strange a company can come up with a whole marketing and revamp of things like forums, product pages and the like and a simple thing like communicating to potential customers  what their options are is a herculean task which takes several months and requires preparing the grounds several times for some reason.

Bugs ? C’mon,. Enlighten the faithful please.

J

[Pathfinder]

19 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

 

Did I miss something?

Yes!

[Starship Krupa]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:17 AM, John Vere said:

only Pro Tools was a subscription

And it seems even Avid have backed down and they now offer a perpetual license for PT.

Studio One has a subscription option, Studio One+, which bundles Studio One Pro with a variety of other products and services.

Which leaves Audition as the only DAW I can find that is subscription-only. $23 a month.

I have to wonder if anyone other than people who have full CC subscriptions uses Audition.

[CSistine]

9 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

... and a simple thing like communicating to potential customers  what their options are is a herculean task which takes several months and requires preparing the grounds several times for some reason.

I agree, it is very weird!

Usually the marketing people work out prices and versions while the development team is working on the software. So that they are ready when the product is "feature-complete".

[John Vere]

7 hours ago, CSistine said:

I agree, it is very weird!

Usually the marketing people work out prices and versions while the development team is working on the software. So that they are ready when the product is "feature-complete".

Absolutely as well as have all the details attended to like the info on the web page. Tutorials and fancy promo videos press releases to the industry, unveiled at NAAM. 
They either have a brilliant plan that has yet to be revealed or they just don’t think things through. 

I have now been on all the major DAWs web pages and Bandlabs sites will need a lot of work if they want to look good out there. For almost a year the main thing you see is “Coming Soon”. ?? 
That’s unheard of elsewhere. 
I want to see Price and a demo the rest is exactly the same boring promo all the web pages have which I doubt anyone reads, I don’t, it’s all promo marketing speak and you rarely see what you want to know so on to the demo.

I guess Cakewalk is the demo! 
What a confusing mess I feel sorry for any one who might have been interested. 

Edited March 24 by John Vere

[John Vere]

31 minutes ago, pwal³ said:

crap marketing

Exactly but that was fine for a freebie but now it’s not. 

[Kevin Walsh]

13 hours ago, CSistine said:

I agree, it is very weird!

Usually the marketing people work out prices and versions while the development team is working on the software. So that they are ready when the product is "feature-complete".

In my experience this is done before development begins in earnest. A business needs to know the size of the market, competition, pricing, feature set and cost of development  before the first shovel full of dirt is turned. Bandlab may not have decided what sales model to implement but they almost certainly know what the numbers are.

Edited March 24 by Kevin Walsh

[Pathfinder]

6 hours ago, Kevin Walsh said:

In my experience this is done before development begins in earnest. A business needs to know the size of the market, competition, pricing, feature set and cost of development  before the first shovel full of dirt is turned. Bandlab may not have decided what sales model to implement but they almost certainly know what the numbers are.

Guess they just haven't had enough time yet? Really?

[Kevin Walsh]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Guess they just haven't had enough time yet? Really?

Please clarify. I can't tell if you're questioning my experiences or if your expressing dismay at BandLab's actions. As for me, I have no idea what's going on at BandLab. I'm just adding some insight into how some companies I've been involved with have made product decisions. 

[Hillmy]

Someone forgot to put the cake in the fridge and is now suffering the consequences. The longer it takes, the worst it gets.

Cutting sugar intake is good though, especially added sugar. So your body will thank you I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[norfolkmastering]

As we can be reasonably sure that the Bandlab guys will be keeping some oversight of this discussion, it would seem to be a good time for them to make some kind of clarification statement about how Sonar is going to be made available in the future.

It is confusing to see the pre-release being made available on a paid for basis via Backstage Pass, without (as far as I can see) any confirmation that this paid for access is going to count for something when the full release is done.  I say this, in part, because of the amount of additional 'beta' testing feedback which those folks accessing Sonar via Backstage Pass are providing to Bandlab.

I'm not suggesting that firm pricing needs to be announced now (although I don't see why not) but at the very least some clarification as to whether Back Stage pass is the final 'purchase' route to Sonar or not; and if not, how we are going to be able to purchase Sonar.

[Misha]

Yesterday, as some of you did, I received Native Instruments 2024 newsletter. Cutting all the blah, it specifically mentioned this:

"We also understand subscriptions aren’t for everyone, so don't worry – our perpetual bundles won't be going anywhere."

I agree, it's not healthy  not disclosing if perpetual licenses will be available for Sonar.... Especially now, when working demo is available. 

While I do have faith that Sonar will not be a subscription only gig, very recently I was looking at a few competitors and made a probable choice if things will go sour.  That was after reviewing Sonar demo. The reason - because non subscription options were not mentioned. This is not a "threat" of any kind, just want to show, if it matters, how some of millions of users think. I do like new look/feel of Sonar and will be among first in line if non sub. options will be offered.

 

P.S. I also think it will be noble for Bandlab to permanently unlock  the software that was purchased before Bandlab's takeover and if they want to be extra nice, unlock Cakewalk by Bandlab permanently...