Pathfinder Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, Greg Wynn said: I’ve been using Cakewalk/Sonar for +20 years. And for many years when it became CbB I used it for free. Zilch. Nada. Whatever the pricing scheme ends up being I’m onboard. Cakewalk/Sonar has been extremely good to me and I have zero problems reciprocating. Kind of goes both ways. we also supported (as in $$$) CW\Sonar for many, many years, much longer than CWBL has been free. So why not accommodate those of us that have an aversion to "Software subscriptions and come up with a price. The $$$ is NOT the issue with me. Edited March 20 by Pathfinder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVSX Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 9 hours ago, John Vere said: Guy walking trough a Saturday afternoon Farmers Market sees an artist painting a picture and stops to ask him about it. “I like your painting is it for sale? “ “No I’m not finished yet. “ “Ok but when it’s finished how much will it cost?” “ I don’t know until it’s finished . And I’m thinking I might rent this one in the Gallery art rental program. I can sometimes make a nice steady income from that.” “But I don’t want to rent it, I prefer to buy it from you, but only if I like the price.” “Ahh, see you already are offering me less money than it’s worth and haven’t even told you what I think that is?” This is why I think I’m better off renting it. That way more people will enjoy my painting and I’ll have a monthly income for a long time. If I sell it to you when it’s finished, you will want a bargain and I’ll be sad and probably spend that money all at once in the bar. I’ll have no money later on.” The man walked away and bought a ugly framed print from WalMart. He didn’t like the ugly cheap painting very much but he was proud because he owed it outright. You cannot compare piece of art with a software for music creation. That's not how it works. You could compare it with buying a movie on Bluray vs. get a Netflix subscribtion to watch that particular movie. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SVSX said: You cannot compare piece of art with a software for music creation. That's not how it works. You could compare it with buying a movie on Bluray vs. get a Netflix subscribtion to watch that particular movie. You missed my point. Rental can give you a steady cash flow that can result in a higher profit. It is more importantly solid information for share holders. Predicting cash sales isn’t. Do you actually think business make money by selling stuff?? No they make money trading shares. I’ve said it before, give this company credit for being on top of modern business models and marketing schemes. This is good news for us as it’s the exact opposite of how Gibson ran things. We hopefully won’t be going bankrupt any time soon. I get a huge kick out of the people who think they are making a big mistake. Have you bought your shares in Bandlab yet? Edited March 20 by John Vere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njm255 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 It comes down to whatever Bandlab decides their customer base will/should be. Younger and newer musicians/producers will probably lean towards subscriptions more, whereas those who are more seasoned and in this for business are much more likely to want an outright purchase. Are they looking to compete with Protools/Logic/Cubase/Studio One with Sonar being claimed as a more professional DAW or just looking to draw the less "professional" artists in with this being a nice add-on to Bandlab or offered as part of some other subscription package? We really won't know until they make an official announcement. With this current release it does come across as though they're trying to feel out how open people are to a subscription package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor55 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 I donate a healthy sum to my local food bank once each year. I do it when it's convenient for me, usually toward the end of the year. I am happy to do so and the folks there are certainly appreciative. Early this year they called and asked if I would consider giving the same amount as last year in monthly installments deducted from my bank. They were quite persistent, but I refused. Clearly, they desire consistent and predictable cash flow. I suppose I can't blame them for that. But I don't like it. It makes me feel taken for granted and leaves me out of control. If for any reason I can't (or don't want to) give, I must take an action, rather than simply not take an action. I realize this is not an apples-to-apples comparison (i.e. charities vs DAW revenues), but seems the whole world is moving in this direction. I own outright a lot of Waves Inc. plug-ins. Waves has a thousand products many of which do practically the same thing. They'd much rather I pay a permanent yearly fee for the privilege of accessing any plug-in at any time. That puts me in full control of a grand array of products (many of dubious utility, but some that could become integral to a project) while putting me in less control of my money. Unfortunately, it's something I may have to learn to get used to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) For me, I guess you would say it's a matter of principle. Right or wrong it is how I, Frank, feel. Also the only reason I keep mentioning it is because of my preference for CW\Sonar, etc. Trust me, it's not an easy thing. Edited March 20 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline_UK Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) Just my 2p's worth: I hate 'subscription' business models with a passion. It's a form of intertia selling. It all started years ago with gym memberships, where it dawned on companies that young people tend not to check their bank statements (especially when they're not on paper anymore), and only realise a year after they stopped attending the gym that they laid out hundreds of pounds in direct debits. Now it's weekly recipe boxes, exercise bike regimes, pet food boxes, software, online films, and a zillion others, not to mention charities that all jumped on the bandwgon when they recruited whizz-bang marketing directors from the private sector. "Look, it's only £x a month, a snip." It's a personal thing with me. I won't subscribe to anything, Guitarist magazine being the exception. Edited March 20 by Skyline_UK Typo 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) And they won't disable your magazine if you cancel the subscription Edited March 20 by Terry Kelley 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Four Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, Skyline_UK said: Just my 2p's worth: I hate 'subscription' business models with a passion. It's a form of intertia selling. It all started years ago with gym memberships, where it dawned on companies that young people tend not to check their bank statements (especially when they're not on paper anymore), and only realise a year after they stopped attending the gym that they laid out hundreds of pounds in direct debits. Now it's weekly recipe boxes, exercise bike regimes, pet food boxes, software, online films, and a zillion others, not to mention charities that all jumped on the bandwgon when they recruited whizz-bang marketing directors from the private sector. "Look, it's only £x a month, a snip." It's a personal thing with me. I won't subscribe to anything, Guitarist magazine being the exception. Same here. I don't subscribe to software. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Sorry if I missed this but: Can I install next and Sonar juts to take a look without enrolling? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: Sorry if I missed this but: Can I install next and Sonar juts to take a look without enrolling? Thanks Yes, that's what I've done. Saving and exporting are disabled, but otherwise, it's fully functional. Scroll to the very bottom of the page on this link and click "download" for Sonar. https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar Edited March 21 by John T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) ... Edited March 21 by John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Thank You John! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) No worries! I think it'll be interesting if more of us have a mess around with it and report our thoughts. I get the feeling quite a lot of posts are coming from people who've just seen screen shots. And that's valid, of course. But I've found that using it has changed my mind about a lot of my initial screen shot impressions. Edited March 21 by John T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resonant Serpent Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 As long as what I pay in a subscription goes towards a purchase, I have no problem with it. Currently buying about 20 plugins on Splice and everything offered by other companies like Kiloheartz and Minimal Audio. I make payments, but I eventually own the software. I ended up canning my Presonus subscription because there was no end game. I'd never own the software through that route, and the "perks" like listening to two guys break down a mix or some lame sample material that I'd never use simply weren't worth the cost. I took the same money per month and bought an upgrade to Studio One through Zzounds. That's why I don't like the current subscription model for Sonar. There's no ownership of the program, and I simply don't need what Bandlab is offering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Nelson Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 So far, users have to wrap our heads around, 1. The announcement was made, what, nine months ago? It's uncommon to say the least for a rollout to take this along. Especially since.... 2. There really are no feature updates. Just a HiDPI update and some bug fixes, which is expected from any product. 3. There has been zero clarity as to how much the thing will sell for and how it will be paid. The "pssst, over here" Bandlab sneak peek thing is lame. Sorry, it just is. Someone who subscribes to Bandlab just for the Sonar access might end up paying twice one the real pricing is rolled out. This is the weirdest, softest rollout of any software I have ever seen, bar none. 4. And Bandlab...some legacy Cakewalk Plugins and Virtual Instruments aren't really worth much of anything in 2024. Session Drummer? Concrete Limiter? C'mon man. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 On 3/16/2024 at 3:10 PM, norfolkmastering said: Can anyone clarify if Backstage Pass is now the route to Sonar access for the foreseeable future or is Sonar going to be available to purchase? I wouldn't put money on it based on how strange the whole interaction was when the commercial versions were announced. It was obvious they wanted to not be on the receiving end of the obvious discontent with the probability of the product being subscription only. I have serious reservations about companies which apply mushroom management (being kept in the dark and fed manure) to their users. Then they complain about people creating FUD when it's their fault for keeping information under wraps. I wouldn't be surprised if their current game is making people wait until they move on so they can perpetuate the subscription plan as the only available option. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, John Nelson said: So far, users have to wrap our heads around, 1. The announcement was made, what, nine months ago? It's uncommon to say the least for a rollout to take this along. Especially since.... 2. There really are no feature updates. Just a HiDPI update and some bug fixes, which is expected from any product. 3. There has been zero clarity as to how much the thing will sell for and how it will be paid. The "pssst, over here" Bandlab sneak peek thing is lame. Sorry, it just is. Someone who subscribes to Bandlab just for the Sonar access might end up paying twice one the real pricing is rolled out. This is the weirdest, softest rollout of any software I have ever seen, bar none. 4. And Bandlab...some legacy Cakewalk Plugins and Virtual Instruments aren't really worth much of anything in 2024. Session Drummer? Concrete Limiter? C'mon man. Regarding 2 - you're wrong. see here 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB99 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) I sort of took from Noel's post, that if one buys the bandlab membership, then that includes Sonar and that there would be no price increase for those who bought that membership to keep Sonar. If that is wrong, please advise. Thank you. Edited March 21 by AB9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 I think it is safe to assume that many will flee if the deal will be "membership" only. It would be strange to assume Bakers didn't learn a very valuable lesson from Waves, when they tried to pull off a fast one and had to back peddle it within a VERY short period of time. Even after they came to their senses, it stopped me from having any interest of what that company had/has to offer. From what Noel had mentioned in the past, there will be different OPTIONS and I hope (and have faith) perpetual licenses will be available and fairly priced. If not, there are many choices of DAWs out there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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