Pathfinder Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 7:19 AM, chris.r said: You do have to use that online bandlab thing if you want to run the latest cakewalk because that's how you download and authorize it. That being said I think we are safe to assume that you're good to run your 8.5 for decades on if it suits your needs well. It's major advantage is that you will be able to install and authorize it offline each and every time you would need or want, unlike the new online bandlab thing that needs to be re-authorized online every 6 months or so. Mind you that there's another bandlab's online thingy, an online daw that is something different from cakewalk, and I suppose abacab was trying to point it out, but I had to re-read his post couple times myself to get his point I understood the OP to mean online thingy , as in always. Using anything to download and authorize isn't the same. you pretty much have to download and authorize pretty much most music software. Maybe I misunderstood, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 8:08 PM, Cactus Music said: Not to push the point further, I'm actually on the side of folks who are happy using older versions as I myself was exactly that person and stayed with 8.5 through the whole X series debacle. So I'm just saying this to be supportive and also encourage people to take the actual small amount of time it will take to learn how the new versions differ. It's a lot easier than you think if you just take certain steps. As I said I stayed with 8.5 and so when I finally ended up with X3e I fired it up and nothing was right! It was all very wrong and simple things I had done were all now evasive. I quickly bolted back to my comfort zone and good ol' 8.5 and got some work done. I sat on x3 for a while but because I follow this forum I started to read about new features that I really needed and so fired up x3e again. What I did was NOT TRY and record a serious project but just explore and experiment. It didn't take long and I all of a sudden "got it". It's only the GUI interface that they changed. I learned I DON'T have to use Take Lanes etc. I'd say it was only a rainy afternoon and I was working 100% without issues in X3e. It's all how you set your preferences and with a few minor changes to your workflow after a week you'll soon forget 8.5 existed. I'm working on some tutorial videos for a few friends that are total first time computer DAW users so the they are dead simple to follow. They are border line boring if you already know these things. I start with what I believe is super important.. First learn your way around the GUI. I think the big mistake Newbies make is they try and jump right in and record and edit and they have no clue about what the softwares layout and features are. See my signature for links, As you know I was an early adopter of X1. I at first look did not like it. It was only after I read the manual and did a lot of research did I come to "get it". I saw X1 as a new beginning that would lead to a great GUI. Admittedly X1 wa not as complete 8.5 was but it had a lot of room to grow. After they got the PC (Pro Channel) squared away it became a great DAW. With Platinum we were in a time of hectic improvements and additions. By this time everything that had been in 8.5 was also in Sonar. With the change in OS and going 64 bit. Sonar was very much already able to take advantage of the new technology. I run Windows 10 Pro updated when ever it wants to. Is everything perfect? No but it is far and away better than it used to be. Win 10 runs rings around previous Windows. Bandlab's Cakewalk runs rings around all the past Sonar versions. They have made a massive effort to fix bugs and make it a very stable DAW. I think your post Cactus is one of the best on this subject because it speaks to those who are hesitant to embrace Cakewalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 7:43 AM, Dreamer said: LOL. 1974 Fender Jazz, (OEM), 1968 Ampeg ABB-1....other cats drool when they see my axes...and the sound....amazing! New stuff is cool, but there's something about a well beaten classic that stands on it's own even by modern standards. Audiophiles rave about turntables, analog sound....and there's a whole following of old technology fanatics. There's a reason why these tools are still out there. That analogy doesn't really hold up. The difference is with very few exceptions (maybe out of issue plugins) software doesn't retain value with age. Software is always updated and improved upon. Despite CbB being a vastly bigger program than 8.5 it runs circles around it with even the same operations in 8.5 due to the major optimizations that have been added over the years. But yes user interface changes are something you have to get used to with any major software update. Unless there is nothing you need from a newer version and have no issues with what you are using its generally wise to keep your tools updated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcL Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: That analogy doesn't really hold up. The difference is with very few exceptions (maybe out of issue plugins) software doesn't retain value with age. Software is always updated and improved upon. Despite CbB being a vastly bigger program than 8.5 it runs circles around it with even the same operations in 8.5 due to the major optimizations that have been added over the years. But yes user interface changes are something you have to get used to with any major software update. Unless there is nothing you need from a newer version and have no issues with what you are using its generally wise to keep your tools updated. I don't agree to this point of view! I am sure that you and your team aim to improve Cakewalk (and you surely did, thanks). Probably most of the software engineers try to improve their products. But nevertheless new software versions are not always a blessing for the end users and there are many reasons why, e.g.: New hardware or software is required (blown up code, dependency, too slow, ...) New bugs are introduced Good features are dropped that you liked/need Authorization gets complicated (online) The user interface has been worsened (e.g. see Windows, Firefox configuration) Side effects from new functions that you don't use Compatibility issues (e.g. to old use cases) ... For example online authorization: Of late I had lost my internet connection for more than 2 weeks because of a storm (happy New Year! tree crashed the phone line). It happens here out in the woods from time to time and mobile net is worse than bad. So still I do not like that kind of "modern" software that needs so much internet flow rate, more and more with even documentation only on the net. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua A Recinos Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 still using sonar 8.5 producer 32bit here as well, on my windows 10 64bit with x299 7820x intel. Been trying to get used to cakewalk bandlab but I like to work fast and I find that im not able to because im still learning the flow, where everythings at, ect. Things that slow me down or mess my flow up are little things like just selecting/deselecting clips, how click behaviors differ depending on what part of the clip you click on, even the midi piano pain throws me off somtimes, like when i click a note in and want to drag it earlier, the cursor like gets stuck and plays the note in rapid succession so i have to change tools to move the note. and if you click a long midi note in like a quarter note but i want to add some dotted eight notes on top of the blob its difficult click em over the blob, i have to shorten the blob to click a note in and then when they are all superimposed on eachother its just straight up difficult to visualize the seperation. all minor hiccups that really just interrupt my train of thought in the middle of a creative flow, leaving me sticking with sonar 8.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 More power to ya, Joshua. Make music first, then worry about buttons and flashy lights. Don't know why you're running the 32-bit version of SONAR, though. It would be completely painless to switch to the 64-bit version, and that'd open up a lot of sample libraries that just don't fit into the 32-bit memory space. Also know that Cakewalk by Bandlab can be installed alongside SONAR 8.5 and will open all your 8.5 projects. You could go ahead and throw it on your machine, play with it at your leisure, and maybe discover some nifty features you like. Of which there are many. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 When I went from Sonar 8.5 to Sonar X1 I was lost. I was upset because I was basically learning a whole new DAW. I didn't want to interrupt my workflow. However, there were things in Sonar X1 that I knew would improve my workflow like the Pro channel, Sky light interface, Inspector and the Multidock. The control bar I wasn't as accepting to, but as time went on...I have learned to love it. What I did was finish projects in 8.5 and when I had time, opened up Sonar X1 and experimented. This turned out to be a fortune but was a work in progress. You are running into the same situation right now. My advice is to watch some YouTube videos. When Sonar X1 there was some videos for it, but not like now. Most of my research came way of reading the manual and more importantly, this forum (the old one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Joshua said: when i click a note in and want to drag it earlier, the cursor like gets stuck and plays the note in rapid succession so i have to change tools to move the note. and if you click a long midi note in like a quarter note but i want to add some dotted eight notes on top of the blob its difficult click em over the blob, i have to shorten the blob to click a note in and then when they are all superimposed on eachother its just straight up difficult to visualize the seperation. Dragging and hearing the note replay sounds like you're getting the Velocity adjustment tool which activates when hovering at the upper edge of a note., and replays the note as you raise or lower the velocity so you can hear the result. Sizing and zooming the PRV view to make the notes a little taller will help distinguish the hotspots. The second part about superimposed notes isn't clear to me. Normally it's not necessary to have a new event start at the same pitch before the previous one ends. That musical effect is usually accomplished by using Sustain or Sostenuto on plucked/hammered string instruments or using legato samples/modes on bowed sting instruments. But maybe I misunderstood...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 If you're mostly an audio guy then it doesn't make much difference - stick with 8.5.... But if you're heavily into virtual instruments and FX, then you owe it to yourself to make the move to CbB. The main reason should be obvious: plugin expansion. Any plugin you have trouble with in 8.5 will be stuck that way since development has stopped, and no plugin dev will be anxious to track down a bug with an obsolete, 10 year old host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, JonD said: If you're mostly an audio guy then it doesn't make much difference - stick with 8.5 Im not sure I would totally agree. Sonar 8.5 didn't have Region FX, which is a huge leap for people who work with Audio. but you do bring up good points about virtual instruments stuck in a 10 year old vacuum. 37 minutes ago, JonD said: no plugin dev will be anxious to track down a bug with an obsolete, 10 year old host. +1 I do totally agree. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 At this point, there are so many useful new features and improvements (dozens of major ones, and hundreds of little ones) that it's hard to say what, if anything, is indispensible. But, off the top of my head, some of the biggies are : - Overall Stability and Performance - Plugin Support and Management - Navigation and View Management (Control Bar, Multidock, Inspector, Browser, Screensets, Lenses, Auto-zoom, Plugin Window Recycling, etc.) - ProChannel - Mix Recall - Patch Points/Aux Tracks - Take Lanes/Comping - PRV Track/Controller Pane Improvements - Ripple Editing - ARA and Region FX 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I stayed with Sonar 7PE for a few years without any desire to change. The only thing that I hated in my workflow was the constant opening, closing and reconfiguring PRV, CV and other views. I like to hop back and forth between edits of different parts of a project and this was always a bit inconvenient in the old version. I used to wish that there was such a feature as Screensets, allowing me to switch between different view with a single mouse click, which would have solved this problem for me. When I eventually discovered that there was such a feature in Sonar X2, I upgraded immediately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said: When I went from Sonar 8.5 to Sonar X1 I was lost. I was upset because I was basically learning a whole new DAW. I didn't want to interrupt my workflow. However, there were things in Sonar X1 that I knew would improve my workflow like the Pro channel, Sky light interface, Inspector and the Multidock. The control bar I wasn't as accepting to, but as time went on...I have learned to love it. What I did was finish projects in 8.5 and when I had time, opened up Sonar X1 and experimented. This turned out to be a fortune but was a work in progress. You are running into the same situation right now. My advice is to watch some YouTube videos. When Sonar X1 there was some videos for it, but not like now. Most of my research came way of reading the manual and more importantly, this forum (the old one). I remember those days well. It was difficult for me. Not because of the new version but how so many were so upset with it. My very first impression was not a favorable one for X1. However, at the time I was able to get the manual and read it fully. That helped greatly with how I could make the transition. I also had a bit of an insight as to what Cakewalk was trying to do. With that and the manual I could see where they were going with Skylight. It also meant that Sonar was now a very unique DAW in that with the Pro Channel one could potentially configure it in ways that had a impact on the sound of it. True one could use normal VSTs for this but to me the difference was the lower CPU usage the PC offered. An important issue with me. At times it was a lonely place to be in favor of X1. In the end it proved to many it was a good move on CW's part. An interesting point about users that were use to a particular workflow never was an issue for me. I had long ago moved from one DAW to another without much trouble thus workflow was not an important consideration for me. Heck, I learned Logic without a manual. It took them 3 months to send me the manual for it. In those days manuals needed to be printed and mailed. Mine for Logic Platinum 4 came with a 3 ring binder in a separate bundle. BTW, that manual was awful. Logic did not have a Help menu or help popups at that time. Later, I went with Cubase SX 1. To me it all was much the same as long as it did MIDI and audio I could figure it out. Sonar was a Cakewalk for me with Sonar X1 because I already knew Cakewalk's terms for things. Plus Cakewalks manuals were always top notch. Now we are in a new era with Bandlab taking good care of this great DAW. I can't see any reason for not embracing it as now it is the best it has ever been. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: If only there'd been a heads up for the transition from sonar to X1 I think the reaction would have been more favourable That was a shock wasn't it!! But for some reason I can not even say today, I just dropped everything I knew in the old Sonar and embraced the X series. And it took a while for me to re-learn things. But the main thing I noticed about my approach to the new X series was that I didn't try and make it do what the old Sonar did. I just went with the new way. Much less frustration on my part. But others tried and tried to get X1 to do what 8.5 did, and stayed in constant frustration/anger really a lot longer than needed! So my advice to anyone taking the plunge from 8.5 to the new Cakkewalk, leave your old ways at the door!! And just jump on in, the water is fine (once you adjust!) : ) Edited October 22, 2019 by Grem spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.r Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Even though I have adapted myself fairly quick to the new ways of doing things in the X series, I still have the impression that I could make the "clickery" job done much quicker and smoother in the old versions, I think mainly of midi editing in piano roll. There are some tasks counter-intuitive, like deleting notes or lasso-selecting, now. Pulling up the context menu too. It works but still feels kind of odd. I'm very subjective here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, chris.r said: There are some tasks counter-intuitive, like deleting notes or lasso-selecting, now. Pulling up the context menu too. The one mistake I still find myself making in the PRV is expecting right-click to bring up note properties. But when I need to delete many individual notes, I find right-click to be very handy. On the other hand, I adapted to lasso by dragging the right-click so easily that I soon found myself trying to do it in other applications or Windows Explorer, and getting unexpected results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.r Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, David Baay said: The one mistake I still find myself making in the PRV is... see I'm saying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 On 1/17/2019 at 12:49 AM, Pathfinder said: Hi There is NO online thingy. Once it's installed it's CW period. I still Use Sonar Platinum-last version 99% of the time. But I have been fooling with CWbyBL a little bit everyday. There really is NO down side, considering it's free, based off the last Platinum version and has been getting improvements for quite a while now. I still have 8.5 producer , but it's not installed. Good Luck whatever you decide to do. Hi, I just noticed your post and was wondering if by installing CWblBL, will it mess up my old Sonar 8.5 ? I am wanting to try it out but not if I lose my existing sonar 8.5, as I have many saved projects. Can you confirm that both versions can co exist with no issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 On 1/17/2019 at 12:08 AM, aether.roots said: Hi Dreamer, Welcome to the forum. I also advocate for making the jump to the new Cakewalk. In addition to fixing past issues (as mentioned by arlen2133), the new platform and supported OS are going to be the starting point for future improvements, accessories. Another reason - yes, it's free - but. besides that, there are tons of opportunity to exercise your creativity. Hi, I just noticed your post and was wondering if by installing CWblBL, will it mess up my old Sonar 8.5 ? I am wanting to try it out but not if I lose my existing sonar 8.5, as I have many saved projects. Can you confirm that both versions can co exist with no issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 On 1/17/2019 at 6:13 PM, pwalpwal said: the biggest difference with 8.5 is the UI... but you can install it alongside 8.5 while you get used to it... Hi, I just noticed your post and was wondering if by installing CWblBL, will it mess up my old Sonar 8.5 ? I am wanting to try it out but not if I lose my existing sonar 8.5, as I have many saved projects. Can you confirm that both versions can co exist with no issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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