Korg Triton vst General MIDI Banks with Cakewalk?

[dalemccl]

Edit: I think I should have posted this in the Instruments and Effects sub-form.  Is there a way to move it to there?

I just bought the Korg Triton/Triton Extreme vst plugin for use in Cakewalk. In some situations I want to use the Triton Extreme vst's GM banks for some existing MIDI files where the instrument patches are set up for GM.  Just like I would use TTS-1 or the Roland Sound Canvas vst,  With TTS-1 and Sound Canvas vst I can play the MIDI file and the instruments are automatically assigned to each channel/track.

In the Triton Extreme vst, the GM banks are only available in the Program mode, not in the Combi mode.  There is only one channel available in the Program mode, unlike TTS-1 and Sound Canvas where there are multiple channels.

To use the Triton GM banks for multiple tracks, do I need to add as many instances of the vst as there are tracks in the MIDI file, and set each instance to the desired GM instrument patch?  (That workflow would be inconvenient.)

Hopefully there is a better way. Any suggestions? Thanks

Edited December 7, 2023 by dalemccl

[John Vere]

It’s fine to post here. Same people read stuff. 
I would think you might have to spend some time reading the manual.  It sounds like it’s similar to my Korg 05r/w it too has Combi mode which is the one I use the most because I can have I think 6 instruments.  But then Program mode is the most powerful but only 1 instrument. There’s a 3rd mode for GM called Global Multi possibly you have that? 

Edited December 8, 2023 by John Vere

[dalemccl]

Thanks, John.  I don't see a Global Multi and it is not mentioned in the manual.  

I had a Korg X5DR rack mount unit and it worked fine for GM playback. I kind of wish I hadn't sold it.

The Triton vst Combi mode has 8 channels and I can assign a different instrument to each, although not from the GM banks since those banks are only available in the Program mode.  But there are plenty of equivalent instruments in the Combi mode.  I guess I will need to try more using than one instance of the Triton vst when there are more than 8 tracks in the MIDI sequence.

Edited December 9, 2023 by dalemccl

[bvideo]

Korg typically provides the combi mode as a multitimbral form for using one instance to perform up to 8 separate instruments. So you load programs not banks into combi slots. And it's typical to be able to load any program into any of the 8 slots. So you could create an empty combi and select programs from a general midi bank into the slots, giving you a multitimbral GM synth.

You could look at it this way: the TTS1 supplies exactly one "combi"; it has slots for up to 16 programs, selected from the on-board GM programs. A Korg combi supplies only 8 slots; you can load up to 8 programs, all of them GM, if that's what you want to hear.  (I leave out all the other possibilities offered by the Korg.) There are differences, obviously, in the way MIDI channels and audio outputs are assigned and these could be important to you.

[Byron Dickens]

Is the Triton VST multitimbral?

[bvideo]

Another way to approach the Korg is just go ahead and set up a template with 16 simple instrument tracks, one each for every MIDI channel, each track with its own instance of the Korg. Then your project has the same layout as you would with the TTS1, namely one track for each channel, with an individually assignable program per track. You can select any program from any bank into any track, so you can assign the GM voices as you please. The workflow might not be much different from what you might do with the TTS1.

Note: having multiple instances of a VST does not use significantly more memory than a multitimbral single instance, and the CPU multithreading might be better.

The TTS1 does have a kind of special status in Cakewalk, though, in that opening a standard MIDI file on an empty project automatically deploys TTS1. Hard to beat in terms of simple workflow.

[dalemccl]

18 hours ago, bvideo said:

Korg typically provides the combi mode as a multitimbral form for using one instance to perform up to 8 separate instruments. So you load programs not banks into combi slots. And it's typical to be able to load any program into any of the 8 slots. So you could create an empty combi and select programs from a general midi bank into the slots, giving you a multitimbral GM synth.

You could look at it this way: the TTS1 supplies exactly one "combi"; it has slots for up to 16 programs, selected from the on-board GM programs. A Korg combi supplies only 8 slots; you can load up to 8 programs, all of them GM, if that's what you want to hear.  (I leave out all the other possibilities offered by the Korg.) There are differences, obviously, in the way MIDI channels and audio outputs are assigned and these could be important to you.

bvideo, please  see attached screenshot. 

When I have the Triton vst in Combi mode, there are 8 slots, but the only banks I see available to choose from are the 11 Combi "Factory" banks, A-N.  The attached screen shot shows Banks A through H visible,  with a horizontal scroll bar which scrolls to out to the remaining Banks.  GM is not shown as an available bank.  If I switch to Program mode, the GM banks become available, but there is only 1 slot.  I don't see a way to put a GM program instrument into a Combi slot.

Am I missing something?  Thanks.

[dalemccl]

16 hours ago, bvideo said:

Another way to approach the Korg is just go ahead and set up a template with 16 simple instrument tracks, one each for every MIDI channel, each track with its own instance of the Korg. Then your project has the same layout as you would with the TTS1, namely one track for each channel, with an individually assignable program per track. You can select any program from any bank into any track, so you can assign the GM voices as you please. The workflow might not be much different from what you might do with the TTS1.

Note: having multiple instances of a VST does not use significantly more memory than a multitimbral single instance, and the CPU multithreading might be better.

The TTS1 does have a kind of special status in Cakewalk, though, in that opening a standard MIDI file on an empty project automatically deploys TTS1. Hard to beat in terms of simple workflow.

bvideo, I think that is what I will try to do.   Thanks!

[Byron Dickens]

19 hours ago, bvideo said:

Korg typically provides the combi mode as a multitimbral form for using one instance to perform up to 8 separate instruments.

That is incorrect. Korg's Combination mode is NOT multitimbral. It is for combining patches together to do things like making splits and layers.

[John Vere]

The term multi timbral for VST instruments would imply as Byron is saying that the synth can play more than one instrument and each instrument uses a specific midi channel. 
TTS-1 can use all 16 channels

The only other multi Timbral synth I have is the Air Xpand which can play 4 parts using 4 channels. 
Multi channel synths seem rare. 

[rsinger]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:52 PM, dalemccl said:

In the Triton Extreme vst, the GM banks are only available in the Program mode, not in the Combi mode.  There is only one channel available in the Program mode, unlike TTS-1 and Sound Canvas where there are multiple channels.

In combi mode the browser is browsing for combis. In combi mode go to the left side of the UI and select a program, then select the downward facing triangle, then select Load Program and that gives you the program browser. Select GM from the top of the browser.

[rsinger]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

The only other multi Timbral synth I have is the Air Xpand which can play 4 parts using 4 channels. 
Multi channel synths seem rare. 

Omnisphere is 8 part multitimbral, Kontakt is, I'm guessing Sampletank. 

[edit]

Korg M1 is 8 part multitimbral.

Edited December 9, 2023 by rsinger

[dalemccl]

4 hours ago, rsinger said:

In combi mode the browser is browsing for combis. In combi mode go to the left side of the UI and select a program, then select the downward facing triangle, then select Load Program and that gives you the program browser. Select GM from the top of the browser.

Thank you, rsinger!  I had been using the downward facing triangle to load programs into the 8 Combi slots, but never noticed that the GM programs then became available at the top.  I was leaving it on the default "Factory" setting. Now I see "GM" right next to "Factory". 

 

[msmcleod]

9 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

That is incorrect. Korg's Combination mode is NOT multitimbral. It is for combining patches together to do things like making splits and layers.

I'll need to check out the Triton's implementation, but certainly on the Korg X series, combinations could be multi-timbral - you'd simply set the MIDI channel of the different patches within the combi to different channels.  I use this technique on my X5D (live use)/ X5DR (studio), simply because there's 100 combi's that are easily saved and only one Multi... and the multi is a pain to set up.

[EDIT] - looks like Korg removed the ability to set different Combi part receive channels in the N series.  Pity... it was very useful for live use.

[John Vere]

@msmcleod I read the info about the VST and it only talks about how the hardware devices were multi timbral It doesn’t really ever say the VST is. 

I guess easy to test by inserting the VST and see if there’s options for separate output tracks. 

If not then no point in using it as multi instrument anyway. 

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

@msmcleod I read the info about the VST and it only talks about how the hardware devices were multi timbral It doesn’t really ever say the VST is. 

I guess easy to test by inserting the VST and see if there’s options for separate output tracks. 

If not then no point in using it as multi instrument anyway. 

Just tried it - the Korg Triton VSTi is indeed mono-timbral.  Makes sense, as both the VSTi versions of the M1 & Wavestation are mono-timbral too.

[bvideo]

The Korg M1 vsti is definitely multitimbral, as is the original synth. In combi mode, click on the puke green MIDI widget (in between "performance" and "master fx" and just right of the vertical divider is the selector for MIDI channel for each slot.

I don't have the Korg triton vsti, but the "Korg Collection Triton Workstation Music  Workstation Owner's Manual" for the vsti clearly states there is a setting for MIDI channel for each slot (timbre). See the MIDI section of the "Combi" chapter. The MIDI button is between the Setting and Zone buttons. The first column of that page selects the MIDI channel per zone as from the manual:
 

Quote

MIDI CH
Sets the MIDI transmit/receive channel for each timbre 1-8

Most likely all the Combi presets are monotimbral. You need to roll your own.

 

Here's the M1:

[bvideo]

My detailed reply is waiting to be approved. Bottom line, Korg M1 and Triton vstis are multitimbral. If the extreme is different, that's a shame.

This word just in: the Korg Collection TRITON extreme owner's manual has the same words about setting the MIDI channel for each timbre.

Edited December 9, 2023 by bvideo

[rsinger]

11 minutes ago, bvideo said:

My detailed reply is waiting to be approved. Bottom line, Korg M1 and Triton vstis are multitimbral. If the extreme is different, that's a shame.

Extreme appears to be the same as the triton, 8 part multitimbral, and like the M1.