Bogren Digital Krimh Drums Free Edition - First Look ?

[Larry Shelby]

Get it here -  Kontakt Player

https://bogrendigital.com/products/krimh-drums-free

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by cclarry

[PavlovsCat]

This sounds very metal,  yet the influencer says how versatile they are, shortly thereafter he says how there's no mixer.  Um, no. If you're doing metal or something heavy, these sound pretty good -- at least on my phone. I think if you picked up this, Steven Slate Drums Free and to a lesser extent (simply because I don't  think it sounds great), BFD PLAYER, you could be pretty well armed with drums, at zero cost. 

I'll check this out further later. It's too bad there's no mixer, though. Personally,  it's not a fit for me, but it sounds like it will make the cut for my freebie list threads. Cool find, Larry.  

Edited October 14, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[chris.r]

42 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

It's too bad there's no mixer, though...

There is a paid version that has the mixer so to me this free version serves more as a teaser, a nice one though it seems. Unfortunately I won't be able to download the library because I still use old version of NI Access, the website claims it requires Kontakt 6 Player but video is already showing Kontakt 7 Player and the newer NI Access where the 'download' button pops-up but here in the old NI Access there's only 'locate', too bad.

[Marc Cormier]

1 hour ago, chris.r said:

There is a paid version that has the mixer so to me this free version serves more as a teaser, a nice one though it seems. Unfortunately I won't be able to download the library because I still use old version of NI Access, the website claims it requires Kontakt 6 Player but video is already showing Kontakt 7 Player and the newer NI Access where the 'download' button pops-up but here in the old NI Access there's only 'locate', too bad.

If you hit "Install", it will start the download - at least that's how its working here.  I reverted back to an older version of Native Access because the new one, well...

[Last Call]

Sounds better than Toontrack, that is for sure! Hell, even BFD player sounds better than Toontrack, lol.

[PavlovsCat]

17 minutes ago, Last Call said:

Sounds better than Toontrack, that is for sure! Hell, even BFD player sounds better than Toontrack, lol.

I figured from our other conversations about BFD Player that you also loved Toontrack. Do you do metal? I'm not a metal player (although I definitely appreciate good metal drumming, some of those drummers are monster players), so I realize your preferences may be completely different,  but I haven't found a drum sample developer that is at Toontrack's level. They're masters. I don't love some of their policies,  but man, I love their drum libraries. 

[Last Call]

46 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

They're masters

Yeah, nope. I don't think Toontrack is any good. But I understand you like them as a lot of people.

Their  STOCKHOLM SDX is pretty decent.
I feel their Room and Overhead channels are the worst (Overall speaking).
To me they sound kind of thin and harsh.

Just so you know what I think recorded drums should sound like, here is a snippet of that idea:

https://youtu.be/VCgB93xSewI?si=WHwxIa1TCAEwv10v&t=195

[PavlovsCat]

26 minutes ago, Last Call said:

Yeah, nope. I don't think Toontrack is any good. But I understand you like them as a lot of people.

Their  STOCKHOLM SDX is pretty decent.
I feel their Room and Overhead channels are the worst (Overall speaking).
To me they sound kind of thin and harsh.

Just so you know what I think recorded drums should sound like, here is a snippet of that idea:

https://youtu.be/VCgB93xSewI?si=WHwxIa1TCAEwv10v&t=195

That kit does sound great. If there was a sample library that had that sound, I'd absolutely want it. It would easily get lost in many loud rock mixes,  but I love the sound of the kit. As you probably realize, I love talking drums, whether or not we love the same sample libraries, it's stil fun to nerd out on the topic!  Do you play drums and what are some of the drum libraries you think get it right? 

Edited October 14, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[MusicMan]

23 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

That kit does sound great. If there was a sample library that had that sound, I'd absolutely want it. It would easily get lost in many loud rock mixes,  but I love the sound of the kit. As you probably realize, I love talking drums, whether or not we love the same sample libraries, it's stil fun to nerd out on the topic!  Do you play drums and what are some of the drum libraries you think get it right? 

Semi off topic to the original post, but still related; are any of the drums in Komplete Ultimate decent and if so which ones?

I haven't installed them yet as I've been been installing and checking out some of the other libraries first (and there's a lot!) but getting to these soon.

[PavlovsCat]

2 minutes ago, MusicMan said:

Semi off topic to the original post, but still related; are any of the drums in Komplete Ultimate decent and if so which ones?

I haven't installed them yet as I've been been installing and checking out some of the other libraries first (and there's a lot!) but getting to these soon.

Of course,  it's all subjective,  but I absolutely think there are some really good acoustic rock drums with KOMPLETE and they don't get much love in the forums,  they're pretty much ignored. 

My personal favorite of the bunch (and I only have KOMPLETE standard but have contemplated getting Ultimate so many times that I know what's in it) is Studio Drummer. I love the way the drums are tuned. One of the kits sounds a lot like how I tune drums. The tone is great and that's not always the case with sampled drums. I think Abbey Road Drummer, while the presets aren't fantastic,  the drums samples and construction are really good. It's so well sampled and you can go in and create presets to your liking, although I wish you could swap drums between the various AR drum kits like you can with SD3 and AD2. But I find both Studio Drummer and the AR drums are a lot more sophisticated libraries than AD2 kits,  fuller and again,  if the presets don't inspire you, you can make custom ones, but the underlying samples and the detail of Studio Drummer and the AR kits is really top notch, IMO. 

Cory Pelazzari has a YouTube video on the Abbey Road Drummer series and Studio Drummer where he gives away some really nice free presets for both. I'm watching a game now, but I can update with a link later. My favorite AR kits are 60s Drums and Modern Drummer.  

[PavlovsCat]

@MusicMan This video from influencer Cory Pelazzari, who I've gotten to know and like a lot (I'm the Peter that Cory credits on YouTube for inspiring him to return to making videos; so yes, there is an influencer in this market who I really think is an honest person not shilling product; I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's the most honest influencer I know of; if you contrast him with the Production Expert guy/folks, they take money from the products they fake review -- they're really just infomercial pitchmen; Corey is a very honest guy who is a straight shooter who will say if he doesn't like something and it's ticked off a number of developers, unsurprisingly, and it's something that influencers just don't do -- because developers don't like it and won't pay you or sponsor your channel or keep giving you free product if you do that stuff; it burns bridges). Cory is pretty critical of the NI drum sample libraries, but he goes through the AR presets in his video and plays the presets he made that he shares. I don't known AR 50s Drummer -- I own 60s Drummer and Modern Drummer -- but that is one that I think sounds excellent and may buy alone or I might upgrade to KOMPLETE Ultimate when it's time for the next update. Anyhow, you'll want to pick up Cory's presets, IMO, I think he did a good job, but you can hear them and decide for yourself (they're linked in the video description). 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[Last Call]

2 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

 It would easily get lost in many loud rock mixes

Um, I don't really think so. To me it even sounds compressed. And loud enough. It sounds BIG! And FAT, I mean, PHAT! 

I invite you to download the audio of the video, and import it in your fave DAW, cut a loop out of it (maybe just 2 bars?) and experiment with it using your fave guitar/bass sounds and vocals. Maybe add/piano a synth to it. You could even nowadays stretch it to one of your songs, just for kicks.

Oh, remember you mix the song around vocals and drums.

I play a little, I have a DW/Tama Starclassic mix of drums, Meinl cymbals.

What I don't have is an interface like an Apollo x6 or 8xp to record drums properly.
If I did, I bet I could manage to get them sound right, maybe like the video.

Also I have noticed, to my unfortunate past (but now I am the happiest man alive), that the gear you use to hear back sound/music is the most important thing in the world.

I have some NS10's type of speaker... and... they sound like trash.
I just got 2 weeks ago some Sony SSC5 something and... omg... the difference is abysmal. I can enjoy music again.
I downgraded from an RME dac to an Apple dongle... and omg the difference is abysmal too. I introduced RME to my blacklist of things. (and there is an article why Boutique audio manufacturers have nothing on Apple, and after reading key elements of it... it convinced me 100% the article is right).

I downgraded from some Sennheiser HD820 (2400 dollars...) to some Moondrop Chu (there is now a Chu II version I didn't know) IEMS... and to me... they sound just beyond amazing. Stuff sounds they way it's supposed to. There's just an example, this song Even Flow by Pearl Jam... it has lots of cymbals, you can hear them all pristine clear, super bright... but... cymbals are bright by default. No phasing, no nothing... I am amazed by how now a $20 pair of IEMS can sound so perfect (CHU II fixes the bass being very low to my tastes, haven't bought them yet).

I have some Hifiman X Edition on the way, they arrive tomorrow, but... this Moondrop Chu are just phehomenal (reading reviews they are prone to "breaking", but I don't care, they are just stellar).

I am so radical I am this close to throwing to the trash my SEnnheiser cans (tested the 599S too, they are ok), and my RME ADI 2 DAC too... I already threw some Beyerdynamic cans away... yeah... that's me. (I won't buy another GERMAN thingie in my life. )

After all now, I mean, TLDR, I love my cheap audio gear, and I love music and SOUND (I fixate a lot on TIMBER mostly). And I couldn't be happier.

(Already bought 6 Apple dongles, and my plan is selling my RME DAC and buy a 100, I kid you not).

Ahhh, felt good to get that out of my chest.

I know, too much typing. Think what you will. I'll be enjoying my favorite toons now till I drop dead finally. FINALLY.

?
 

[Last Call]

2 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

what are some of the drum libraries you think get it right

Oh, didn't answer this, sorry. I haven't found an amazing drums library yet.
I am testing lots of BFD libraries, they have some good elements, but it's like they have this amazing snare (maybe) but the rest of the kit is supbar.
I will type more of my findings when I reach a proper conclusion (there are a zillion BFD expansions ).
Cheers.

(EDIT: I told the Portsmouth guys -they guys on the video- to make their own sound library, that they would sell a ton, some days ago. Ofc probably they won't listen, lol).

Edited October 15, 2023 by Last Call

[chris.r]

11 hours ago, Marc Cormier said:

If you hit "Install", it will start the download - at least that's how its working here.  I reverted back to an older version of Native Access because the new one, well...

Thanks. It didn't for me, it asked me to navigate for the library. But then I remembered that, on the other PC, I performed some steps to reset the NI Access because it was nearly dead on me, no updates, no downloads, etc. I tried there and it worked! I should try resetting NI Access here on laptop probably. And yeah, I want to stay on the older version as long as possible because the new one, well...

[MusicMan]

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

@MusicMan This video from influencer Cory Pelazzari, who I've gotten to know and like a lot (I'm the Peter that Cory credits me on YouTube for inspiring him to return to making videos; so yes, there is an influencer in this market who I really think is an honest person not shilling product; I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's the most honest influencer I know of; if you contrast him with the Production Expert guy/folks, they take money from the products they fake review -- they're really just infomercial pitchmen; Corey is a very honest guy who is a straight shooter who will say if he doesn't like something and it's ticked off a number of developers, unsurprisingly, and it's something that influencers just don't do -- because developers don't like it and won't pay you or sponsor your channel or keep giving you free product if you do that stuff; it burns bridges). Cory is pretty critical of the NI drum sample libraries, but he goes through the AR presets in his video and plays the presets he made that he shares. I don't known AR 50s Drummer -- I own 60s Drummer and Modern Drummer -- but that is one that I think sounds excellent and may buy alone or I might upgrade to KOMPLETE Ultimate when it's time for the next update. Anyhow, you'll want to pick up Cory's presets, IMO, I think he did a good job, but you can hear them and decide for yourself (they're linked in the video description). 
 

 

Thanks Peter, two very useful replies! It seems like I'm almost the only member on here that doesn't have SD3, which seems well regarded and therefore probably not a bad benchmark, albeit of course lots of people have different preferences and tastes, but it's good to get some other opinions on kits. I'm also not a drummer, so other's expertise is good there too ?

The NI Drum libraries aren't often mentioned, which is why I have tended to assume they likely weren't too good (and some Komplete stuff is a bit average / filler). I didn't mind some of the tones in the video and I like that they're raw sounding. It's more practice understanding how to get them right for me and also when everything is baked in, you can't get as much variation in sound and use as you can't take that treatment away from them.

I gave the video a watch and downloaded the presets. His channel does seem like it has some useful things on there so I might subscribe to that one.

Will start downloading some of the NI Drums to check them out and thanks for all the info ?

[PavlovsCat]

17 minutes ago, Last Call said:

I know, too much typing. Think what you will. I'll be enjoying my favorite toons now till I drop dead finally. FINALLY.

?
 

You think I'm going to be the one to judge someone else for long posts???? Hahaha. Um, no you're good with me. We could talk drums for hours and I'd be happy.

Back when I was a drummer I would hang out with other drummers when we weren't playing and check out other drummers! And some of those guys were just brutal on drummers. I made one of them promise never to go to my  shows and he said, "You don't have to worry, you're good. I only rip on guys that suck." I still didn't trust the guy and he was one of my favorite rock drummers on the local scene (actually he played nationally to with a bunch of bands that had hits in the 60s and 70s). But even though I did a ton of playing and did some recording, I never learned about mixing or mastering, there were always pros that handled that. I actually bought all of the effects and mics I own on the advice of sound engineers for bands I played with or sound guys I knew from the local music scene. So now that I don't play anymore, I rely on some friends and you guys! I could be pretty savage when I saw a bad drummer, but I remember when I saw a band that I met with before an audition, I was so into the drummer -- the guy was just extremely good, played perfect for the music, that my girlfriend got tired of hearing me praise him and jokingly said, "I just want to let you know that I understand if you want to leave me for him. I won't stand in the way!" And weirdly enough, I didn't know it, but they fired the guy to have me replace him and he would go to our shows just to give me the finger (with both hands) and yell you suck during breaks. He did that for three or four shows, and they had covers of like $10 or $15 and funny enough, I started to feel bad for him. So I walked up to him during a break -- I think he thought I was going to punch him. Anyhow, I asked him, "I thought you quit the band, because that's what I was told. But I'm beginning to suspect that you were fired and think I knew that when I was introduced to you." He confirmed that's what happened. and begin to profusely apologize. I told him he was far too good of a drummer to not be playing and we had a beer together and really bonded. We toasted each other and he told me he actually really loved my drumming and was just angry with me because he thought I stole his job. I never saw him again. But I should have gotten his number, we would have had great times, I'm sure. 

And yeah, from your other comment, if those guys created a kit that sounded like the drums in the video you shared, I would absolutely want it. It sounded gorgeous to me. 

[MusicMan]

30 minutes ago, Last Call said:

I have some NS10's type of speaker... and... they sound like trash.
I just got 2 weeks ago some Sony SSC5 something and... omg... the difference is abysmal. I can enjoy music again.
I downgraded from an RME dac to an Apple dongle... and omg the difference is abysmal too. I introduced RME to my blacklist of things. (and there is an article why Boutique audio manufacturers have nothing on Apple, and after reading key elements of it... it convinced me 100% the article is right).

I downgraded from some Sennheiser HD820 (2400 dollars...) to some Moondrop Chu (there is now a Chu II version I didn't know) IEMS... and to me... they sound just beyond amazing. Stuff sounds they way it's supposed to. There's just an example, this song Even Flow by Pearl Jam... it has lots of cymbals, you can hear them all pristine clear, super bright... but... cymbals are bright by default. No phasing, no nothing... I am amazed by how now a $20 pair of IEMS can sound so perfect (CHU II fixes the bass being very low to my tastes, haven't bought them yet).

These aren't too surprising (apart from the RME one!) however NS10 and often higher end Sennheisers etc aren't designed to sound "nice" as such, they're more designed to sound true and accurate without coloring the sound as much, so that it's easier to translate mixes to all different systems. The Sony's you mentioned are more for listening enjoyment. There's nothing wrong with that and everyone that produces will normally need/want a set of both types, it's just they have two completely different purposes and neither will work well for both use cases.

[PavlovsCat]

25 minutes ago, MusicMan said:

Thanks Peter, two very useful replies! It seems like I'm almost the only member on here that doesn't have SD3, which seems well regarded and therefore probably not a bad benchmark, albeit of course lots of people have different preferences and tastes, but it's good to get some other opinions on kits. I'm also not a drummer, so other's expertise is good there too ?

The NI Drum libraries aren't often mentioned, which is why I have tended to assume they likely weren't too good (and some Komplete stuff is a bit average / filler). I didn't mind some of the tones in the video and I like that they're raw sounding. It's more practice understanding how to get them right for me and also when everything is baked in, you can't get as much variation in sound and use as you can't take that treatment away from them.

I gave the video a watch and downloaded the presets. His channel does seem like it has some useful things on there so I might subscribe to that one.

Will start downloading some of the NI Drums to check them out and thanks for all the info ?

@MusicMan The demo I did for Orange Tree Samples for their Evolution Vintage VIolin Bass library, which is the sampled Hofner bass model that will forever be associated with Mccartney -- and I'd been begging Greg to sample it for more than a decade by the time he released it, so he asked me if I wanted to do a demo.  I used Abbey Road 60s Drums along with a bunch of Orange Tree Samples guitar libraries. I had written 4 songs for consideration for a demo and submitted one and Greg liked it. Then, an hour later I told Greg, "I wrote this song when I was like 14 that my music teacher mother loved, that sounded very McCartney-esque that I never played to anyone because I thought it sounded way too influenced, but I still think it's pretty good and would fit perfectly for this demo. It will be old Peter covering young Peter. Do you have time to let me try it really quickly?" So, I threw this together really fast, all improvised. I was having MIDI issues at the time and it was like the mod wheel was going on and off and my sustain pedal wasn't working (in another thread I've talked about my problems with NEKTAR pedals). So Greg redid my guitar and, I'm not sure, but he may have redone the bass parts, pretty much note for note with some nice little added touches like guitar harmonies and arpeggios that when I heard I was like - wait, how come I didn't think of that? So yeah, my performance won't impress you, and I'm not a great or even competent mixer -- Greg tried to fix that but was stuck with what I handed him. You can hear Abbey Road 60s' Drums in a mix. It opens with the chord progression from McCartney's song "Dear Boy," which I did as a tribute to McCartney.  A tip to you non-drummers or beginning drummers out there that want to go for a 60s vibe, one of the major hallmarks of the way guys like Ringo and Charlie Watts -- two icons of those days -- played was that their playing had a little swing in it (triplet feel) and that was definitely part of the vibe I went for in this demo. 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by PavlovsCat