Can someone tell me how to move a video on the timeline?

[Michael Richards]

I have tried everything I can think of. Can't seem to reset the start time. They always start at the very beginning.

Michael

[Lord Tim]

If you're using any modern video format (which is usually the best idea) then unfortunately you can't due to how the video engine works by default, using the Media Foundation Engine.

You can change to the older original Directshow video rendering engine which will give you the ability to move a video around, but you'll lose support for h.264 MP4, etc.

Info on how to change engines is here: https://gaga.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Playback.46.html

This is one area that Cakewalk really could use some work.

My only real suggestion is to edit the video first in a video editor to get the timing where you want it before you import it in. Not great, but it'll get you over the line.

[Larry Jones]

I stopped trying to do this five years ago, after a week of frustrated attempts. CbB may have "fixed" this issue since then, but if so I don't know about it. (Fixed is in quotes because, after all, CbB is not meant for video editing, so the developers probably don't think it needs to have more video capabilities.) I would advise using a video editing program, and bringing the audio in there from CbB. When you get your video editing done and synced to the audio, render it from there.

Good luck!

EDITED TO ADD: If you're wanting to create music, dialog, FX to the picture, @Lord Tim's suggestion is the way to go, but your workflow won't be the most efficient.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Larry Jones

[Lord Tim]

No, this is still as it was since the Media Foundation Engine was introduced, unfortunately.

By the sounds of it, it's not an easy fix and would need a fair overhaul with how it's currently implemented. Hopefully they get onto that sometime after Sonar is properly underway.

[Michael Richards]

51 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

No, this is still as it was since the Media Foundation Engine was introduced, unfortunately.

By the sounds of it, it's not an easy fix and would need a fair overhaul with how it's currently implemented. Hopefully they get onto that sometime after Sonar is properly underway.

Thank  you, Lord. I really want to learn how to score a movie and want to start with short video clips. I think this is the only music skill I didn't learn in music school. I really don't want to make the expensive move to Cubase so I can try my hand at this. I really don't think Sonar will have this capability, though I am holding out for it. I would think they know almost all of the competition offers decent video scoring.

[Lord Tim]

It's certainly possible to do this with CbB - I've done it. But you definitely need to prep your video first to have it start where you need it to - so at least a rough idea of where it starts and preferably a quick roughed-in edit, then import that video into CbB to do all of the audio work, and then export your mix and import that into your NLE.

No DAW is really set up for much video editing (other than something like Vegas which started life as a DAW, but scoring in it would be pretty painful IMO) so definitely do all your video work in the right app for the job.

So yeah, either do your audio mix first and import that into your NLE and cut the video to your mix, or get the video prepped so it starts where you want it to first before dropping it into CbB and that'll get the job done. But even then, you'll want to export your mix and finish it in an NLE just because of the more robust video render codecs, etc.

[Jimbo 88]

4 hours ago, Michael Richards said:

Thank  you, Lord. I really want to learn how to score a movie and want to start with short video clips. I think this is the only music skill I didn't learn in music school. I really don't want to make the expensive move to Cubase so I can try my hand at this. I really don't think Sonar will have this capability, though I am holding out for it. I would think they know almost all of the competition offers decent video scoring.

So take some advice from an old man with a storied history of scoring to picture...and I've done the lion's share in Cakewalk.  Cakewalk's capabilities for scoring as they stand are fine,  more than fine.

People will argue with me about this, but I have the royalty checks and I don't need to debate this the slightest.  If you want to make $ scoring to picture, you need to be prepared to do some editing.  Just a fact. So get a simple video editing program and learn the basics.  It might just save your life.   No matter what DAW you use, there are formats and codecs that work better in that DAW.  Editors and clients will send you all different formats.  Find what works best and render every cut you get in your DAW's preferred format.  When you have a sample to send back to the client for approval, or you want to create a video...do it using the video app not the DAW.  I've outputted video files from Cubase, CbB and ProTools. Sometimes the client can view them, sometimes not.  When i export out of my video app there is never a problem.  CbB renders audio files quickly and more efficiently than video.

You want the picture to start later?  Slide it in your video app to where you want it to start.  I'll admit, this feature is available in Cubase and other DAW's, but that is the only small advantage.  And I would warn you not to do that in the DAW.  Spend a thousand hours working under deadlines and you will find out why.

OLD MAN RANT!

PS.  Want to look like a pro?  When sending  samples to clients for approval, put your name and version number on a title card at the start of your video.  Include Time code for referencing...that is all

[Lord Tim]

^^ this is good advice!

[Michael Richards]

2 hours ago, Jimbo 88 said:

So take some advice from an old man with a storied history of scoring to picture...and I've done the lion's share in Cakewalk.  Cakewalk's capabilities for scoring as they stand are fine,  more than fine.

People will argue with me about this, but I have the royalty checks and I don't need to debate this the slightest.  If you want to make $ scoring to picture, you need to be prepared to do some editing.  Just a fact. So get a simple video editing program and learn the basics.  It might just save your life.   No matter what DAW you use, there are formats and codecs that work better in that DAW.  Editors and clients will send you all different formats.  Find what works best and render every cut you get in your DAW's preferred format.  When you have a sample to send back to the client for approval, or you want to create a video...do it using the video app not the DAW.  I've outputted video files from Cubase, CbB and ProTools. Sometimes the client can view them, sometimes not.  When i export out of my video app there is never a problem.  CbB renders audio files quickly and more efficiently than video.

You want the picture to start later?  Slide it in your video app to where you want it to start.  I'll admit, this feature is available in Cubase and other DAW's, but that is the only small advantage.  And I would warn you not to do that in the DAW.  Spend a thousand hours working under deadlines and you will find out why.

OLD MAN RANT!

PS.  Want to look like a pro?  When sending  samples to clients for approval, put your name and version number on a title card at the start of your video.  Include Time code for referencing...that is all

Jimbo88, that is excellent and hard earned information. It also gives me hope. I can’t believe you have scored so much to picture in Cakewalk. That’s the best news I have learned in a long time.

Michael

[Andres Medina]

I would add:

• If you opt to use an external editor, one way to go is:
  • just add 5 secs of blank video before frame 1 - export the video  (MP4- H264 codec works great inside CW even at high resolution) 
  • Import the video in CW
  • Now you know that your video starts at precisely 00.00.05.00 SMPTE. 
  • You need to set up a tempo for your music. Doing this will change the measure-beat relation to the video, and probably won't match your compositional needs. If so:
  • Insert your desired initial music tempo 1 or 2 measures before your video starts, and draw tempo changes in the tempo view before this initial tempo. This will change the position of your measures vs the video. (this takes time, but once you understand how it works, it's not that difficult)
• All of the above is really a tedious/long workflow for something that should be as easy as "drag your video to the point you want it in the timeline"
• Studio One already has this ability, so I guess it's something that can definitely be done.
• I would LOVE to see this basic feature in the new Sonar!!

 

[Helios.G]

I am not a professional arranger by any stretch, but for scoring Davinci Resolve is what I go to. It's got a daw built in, and it's editing features for video are pro level. Me personally, I'll never leave sonar/cakewalk, unless it dies again, but for video/film I don't touch it. Oh, also, davinci has a free version that is full functional, with the exception of some fancy effects plugins for video. Which in your scenario shouldn't be a problem.  Just my 2 cents, good luck.

[Lord Tim]

Resolve doesn't do a lot of of MIDI and soft synths and routing that CbB allows you to do, unfortunately, so if you're serious about scoring to picture (as opposed to mixing to picture, which Resolve is more than capable of doing a professional job) then you'd need a dedicated DAW of some kind.

There are a few shortcomings with video in CbB at the moment that I've brought up with the devs and it's on their radar, but I doubt we'll see anything like that soon since the focus is on rolling out the final CbB and bringing the first Sonar online with the new UI, which is a massive job in itself. Hopefully we see some love in that area in the future though.

But yes, until then, Andres and Jimbo have excellent advice. It can certainly be done (I mixed short film about 2 or 3 weeks back, in fact) but you have to deal with the workarounds.  

[Helios.G]

6 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Resolve doesn't do a lot of of MIDI and soft synths and routing that CbB allows you to do, unfortunately, so if you're serious about scoring to picture (as opposed to mixing to picture, which Resolve is more than capable of doing a professional job) then you'd need a dedicated DAW of some kind.

There are a few shortcomings with video in CbB at the moment that I've brought up with the devs and it's on their radar, but I doubt we'll see anything like that soon since the focus is on rolling out the final CbB and bringing the first Sonar online with the new UI, which is a massive job in itself. Hopefully we see some love in that area in the future though.

But yes, until then, Andres and Jimbo have excellent advice. It can certainly be done (I mixed short film about 2 or 3 weeks back, in fact) but you have to deal with the workarounds.  

Yeah Tim, I think I conflated mixing to picture with scoring in this case. My bad.

[Lord Tim]

12 minutes ago, Helios.G said:

Yeah Tim, I think I conflated mixing to picture with scoring in this case. My bad.

I mean if you were just mixing audio - even if it was music - Resolve could certainly do the job, mind you, so I don't think you were too far off base with what you said anyway  

[Michael Richards]

I say, after Sonar is released Lord Tim , Jimbo, and Andres should head up some subcategory for film scoring in Cakewalk. I am sure there are many others in our forum that have a serious interest in this. I am amazed by how many people started out, like me, with Cakewalk on floppy disks. People usually evolve, their interests expand, and moving into film composition is a very natural transition. We probably lose a lot of composers who can't get over these hurtles that we have been discussing and move to a program like Cubase. That's a shame and also a business loss.

Michael

[Lord Tim]

Backing that up, someone mentioned in a thread a while back that he was following along with a course by composer Guy Michelmore (he has amazing YouTube videos and runs an online composition school) and they ran into a big roadblock with SMPTE and timecode that forced this user to have to work in Cubase. For compositional tools, mixing, etc. CbB was well up to the task, but those other details really are a roadblock for some specific professional work. You *can* work around them as a few of us on here do, but if you've been given a specific tech specification from a company and it falls outside of this window, you just simply don't fit into their workflow and you either find software that fits or lose the job.

Like I said earlier, this sounds like it's a pretty big job for another day, but I'd love to see this get some attention.

[Michael Richards]

I've seen most of Guy Michelmore's videos. Funny guy with what seems to be a wonderful career. He's happy, therefore not using Cakewalk to score video games.

I just started using the free version of DaVinci Resolve and can't seem go get one of their export formats to work. As Andres said, I've tried all their MP4- H264 codecs. Nothing works. I did get some free-for-a-day software (either Vimeo or Filmora) and was able to convert an iPhone video to an mp4 h264 and it worked. I just didn't like them and figured Resolve would be better. 

Anybody using Resolve and exporting successfully into Cakewalk? If so, what am I doing wrong?

Michael