Opening files in different laptops brings different patching results

[Harley Dear]

Hi all,

This isn't one of the 'the sky is falling in' moments but  I'd just like to understand why when I open a CWP file that's been processed in one of our band member's PCs, I get a different patching assignment when I load it onto each of my laptops I use for gigs ( on is a back-up ).

We use CWP files in conjunction with our Soundcraft Ui24R as backing tracks for drums, keys and brass. The drum vst we use is SSD5 Sampler. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but is suits our band's style very well. When the other band member makes change to the tracks, has also has a Ui24R which has an identical set-up. All laptops with CbB have same version software and identical VSTs ( same releases )

So when I open one of these files in the ASUS laptop, the assignment for Kick is 'none' as seen below

To make this work, I have to re-assign the patching to 27Out/28in 

When I bring the same file into my MSI laptop, the assignment is fine - need no adjusting

So why does it work fine on one laptop, but need changing on the other?

Thanks,

Harley

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Harley Dear

[msmcleod]

Compare Aud.ini ( in %APPDATA%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\ )  between the machines.  This file specifies the order, indexing, and naming of the device's input and output ports.

You may find that one port is either in a different order, or disabled on one machine.

Another reason could be differences in driver versions, which is causing the names to appear slightly differently and confusing the port matching.

[John Vere]

My rule for anything to do with Live is " Always plug the audio interface and connect the Keyboard Controller ( if used) any time you turn on the laptop and before you open Cakewalk"  

Using 2 identical interfaces on 2 different computers may or may not work because of the dozens of variables that can exist between them. You will either just have to make sure all the imported projects are set up correctly before the gig or delve into seeking out those dozen variables and fixing them. Only to have a Windows update trash them later?  Anyhow prepping for the gigs is a huge job sometimes. I like to set up my whole rig and I play and practice every song. I'll often find stuff that I don't like and fix it. 

[Harley Dear]

Thanks msmcleod and JohnnyV

[Harley Dear]

@msmcleodCompare Aud.ini ( in %APPDATA%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\ )  between the machines.  This file specifies the order, indexing, and naming of the device's input and output ports.

You may find that one port is either in a different order, or disabled on one machine.

Thanks - I have looked into the ini file and really don't know exactly what to look for but I'll load the other machines' ini files and see what the difference is

 

Meanwhile I found literally hundreds of listings for reaper ( I tried reaper a few years ago and gave up in favour of CbB )

This can't be doing the system any good I figure. How do I get rid of all these Reaper references or won't it matter?

 

 

AUD.INI

Edited August 19, 2023 by Harley Dear

[John Vere]

I'm no expert but I've read here a lot that you can completely nuke everything in there and Cakewalk will simply rebuild as needed automatically. I have never looked there before but seeing that Mabey I should! 

[Harley Dear]

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

I'm no expert but I've read here a lot that you can completely nuke everything in there and Cakewalk will simply rebuild as needed automatically. 

@msmcleod Is that correct?. Just get rid of everything, and start CbB up again and it will rebuild?

Thanks @JohnnyV for that info.

Harley

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, if you delete it (or rename it to aud.OLD so you have it there as a backup) it'll automatically be rebuilt when you start CbB next. You might need to go back and double check your preferences in places in case something you customised was changed back to default but it won't break anything if you do this.

[Harley Dear]

6 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Yeah, if you delete it (or rename it to aud.OLD so you have it there as a backup) it'll automatically be rebuilt when you start CbB next. You might need to go back and double check your preferences in places in case something you customised was changed back to default but it won't break anything if you do this.

Thanks Lord Tim

[John Vere]

Glad this was posted, I've seen it mentioned a million times here but as a rule I don't have any major issues. But check out some of the garbage in here like nasty generic drivers etc. found on this, my office computer where I test stuff and write my tutorials.  I had trouble finding it so I just used search once I opened C drive Users. The above pathway was missing stuff I guess.  Other information would be you need to SAVE the txt file after deleting everything. 

I opened Cakewalk and a quick scan of preferences showed nothing had changed . And all my other settings are the same too.  One thing was for sure Cakewalk opened way faster now on this computer. So that seems a fix for that. Now I'm going to do my Laptop and Main DAW. Yahoo a new tweak for performance? 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Glenn Stanton]

here's one not so obvious - but i think was installed recently during one of the MS Edge updates - "Realtek audio effects" in "software components" - before: random clicks and glitches, after disabling: clean again. drove me nuts for a couple of days.

[Harley Dear]

Jeepers! I've got 4 of them! Should I disable all 4?

[Glenn Stanton]

if you're not using them for something else, then yes. i did on my system as i don't use them for anything.

[John Vere]

Just the effects, the others are needed for your on board audio. as Glen said if you never use your on board audio then no loss.  I use both on my office computer and my 2 live performance laptops.   My main DAW on board audio is nuked.  If I turn off my interface the computer has no audio system. 

But I've never had any issues swapping back and forth on the laptops I use for gigs. I actually mostly have used on board audio from the 1/8" jack into the mixer for 100's of shows. I even have a Radial DI box for when I'm on a stage with a sound guy and a snake. In a way it's more bulletproof. But you don't have that option with your set up as you need more output channels. 

I use a Sound craft Signature 10 which has USB stereo connection but it's a PITA and often windows doesn't always see the ASIO driver. I have to turn the mixer off and on and it doesn't even have a friggn swicth so I have to unplug it!  The driver seems to be from Karmen, It works fine when it works. But USB connections scare me as they are a little hyper sensitive to being wiggled. So I mostly use the Audio cable connected. It's more bulletproof. 

I now also have the use of a Behringer X18 which is multi channel and connected to Cakewalk with no issues. I might get brave and try the multi channel system like you using the Playlist. My set up I use split stereo. Bass on left and Drums and keyboards on the right. We are doing that because we now might play real bass on a few songs. And even when I do my solo act I really like running the bass track into my little Fender Rumble. More bass is always a good thing at a dance. 

But what sucks I the sound is mono. I really like using the full stereo versions in smaller venues as so much is lost from things like a Hammond Leslie organ in mono. 

The Playlist is clunky but, hey, they just might give it some love in the new releases. 

 

[Harley Dear]

OK, I labelled the AUD.IN file AUD.INI-OLD and started up Cakewalk with the Ui24R connected.  Nothing worked unfortunately.

So I renamed the previous AUD.IN-OLD back to AUD.INI ( after changing the name of the AUD.INI that was automatically written ) and now when I start all my files, I get this message

If I click OK, then things work fine, but I must save the file fresh so that I don't get this message again plus the patching assignments are all skewiff again ( see below ). I have to do this with every existing file!

I'm probably doing something wrong, but can't understand why CbB didn't write the new AUD.INI file and function well like Lord Tim and msmcleod said it would?

In addition, why do I have to click OK and save each existing file now so it works again? Clearly, there's something I am not understanding about the ASIO set up to our Ui24R.

As mentioned above, after going back to the original AUD.INI, when I open the CWP files, I have to re-assign all the outputs again!  Grrhhh!  What's going wrong here?

Sorry to be a pain.

Harley

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Harley Dear

[John Vere]

My question is, does this happen if you only use the one laptop?

I now see that deleting the whole of the Aud. in would be a mistake for this one reason. It would trash all the ASIO input/output assignments.  I haven't done my old laptop I use just for playback on Win Amp. It has an up to date version of Cakewalk installed that I used 2 years ago to record a live band. So I have a multi input template still available that should open and be ready to record 14 tracks. I will need to get my Tascam interface back from a friend I leant it to a while ago. 

But when I do I'll test and see what happens. First I'll clean out the obvious garbage and test. Then I'll delete everything and test again. 

I will also test with the newer laptop I will be using at the end of September for a live recording session I have booked. If this is true then my new quote for using ASIO devices live will be; 

Always have all devices connected, powered up and recognized as the device by Windows,( Check the system tray ) before opening Cakewalk. 

Do not delete the driver information in the Aud,in file or you will loose channel assignments. 

[Harley Dear]

Well, another interesting thing that I should have noticed but went blindly past.

Somehow, without me knowing, the system driver changed from ASIO to WASAPI!

Actually WASAPI gives me better patching options to the Ui24R for some reason, and now that explains why the two other laptop files ( running ASIO ) did not compute on the main laptop all that well.

Is WASAPI as good as ASIO in this instance? What's the cons of WASAPI vs ASIO? ( I see another post regarding this  @JohnnyV you contributed to and your video is great BUT in windows 11, managing the sound settings seems more obscure )

[John Vere]

In my experience with using both drivers a lot,  playback of music in Cakewalk would not be any different. It's only recording where ASIO is most important so that new audio tracks will sync properly to the already recorded material. An live recording where there is no syncing involved will also be just fine,  But that said if a device comes with ASIO then you would normally want to use it.  

There might be a situation where an ASIO driver is very poorly written and the WASAPI driver seemed more stable. But that seems like a rare off chance.  You're lucky the Soundcraft works with WASAPI, mine doesn't.  I've often connected it to other computers and couldn't get it to be recognized by windows until I installed the ASIO driver. 

A few people have pointed out that my video is W10 and that W11 is a little different. None of my computers will support W11 so I never upgraded. As far as I understand all the setting are still there and the same but it looks different and possibly pathways to settings have changed. 

[Harley Dear]

On 8/30/2023 at 2:44 AM, JohnnyV said:

There might be a situation where an ASIO driver is very poorly written and the WASAPI driver seemed more stable. But that seems like a rare off chance.  You're lucky the Soundcraft works with WASAPI, mine doesn't.  I've often connected it to other computers and couldn't get it to be recognized by windows until I installed the ASIO driver. 

 

I have two Ui24Rs and both have worked well with both ASIO and ( now ) WASAPI. Plus we have three laptops in our band, all as backups of each other or so someone can makes changes on the MIDI files and if it turns out an improvement, then we copy that to the other two machines.

So I am unsure why you've had trouble. We installed Soundcraft's UI24r USB driver in the first instance and both machines worked fine from the very start. One Ui24R was even second had ( risky I know and yes it did have one problem but $60 with the licensed agent fix  that - loose re-set cable ) but with little effort, it works fine.

The sound quality is outstanding. We tried the Behringer option, but that came a poor second.

Anyhow, now we've solved the patching problem I made changes to all our 250 odd projects ( took about 2 minutes a project ) and WASAPI turns out to be the best for us now in terms of using files from one machine to the other.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Harley Dear