Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[sarivel]

I bought SonarXL back in 2006, $500 plus all the updates up to SonarX2 producer, and then a slap on my face, the darn thing went free, I lost my serial # for SonarX2, trying to get the platinum version, but the page was not found anymore, my question is ; Would they honor my previous orders? they are going to use the same format, names, etc. Do we have any rights to claim about this?

[InstrEd]

Just now, sarivel said:

I bought SonarXL back in 2006, $500 plus all the updates up to SonarX2 producer, and then a slap on my face, the darn thing went free, I lost my serial # for SonarX2, trying to get the platinum version, but the page was not found anymore, my question is ; Would they honor my previous orders? they are going to use the same format, names, etc. Do we have any rights to claim about this?

No you have no Rights for a claim.   Such is life.  Apple took over camel audio alchemy and made it MAC only and so all the money I invested in it is gone for Windows updates etc...   

[Alan Tubbs]

Here here Ed.  I lost my fav synth too when Alchemy went Mac only and a lot of libraries, too.  Where do I go to get my investment back?  Maybe Cakewalk should pay since that was the DAW I was using.  Yea, that’s the ticket.

[Byron Dickens]

15 minutes ago, sarivel said:

I bought SonarXL back in 2006, $500 plus all the updates up to SonarX2 producer, and then a slap on my face, the darn thing went free, I lost my serial # for SonarX2, trying to get the platinum version, but the page was not found anymore, my question is ; Would they honor my previous orders? they are going to use the same format, names, etc. Do we have any rights to claim about this?

Where can we send a box of tissues?

[martinh]

I’m still on the fence here.  This seems like a positive development as the product was clearly costing Bandlab money to develop and stabilize but not generating any cash in return, and probably not driving a lot of sales for other Bandlab services. This could not go on.   IMO, things  will be fine if a couple of conditions are met.

 [1] An existing Cwb installation should continue to be viable, even if it requires re-installation because of a crash,  i.e.,  the last version should  be available as a  stand-alone .exe, and no longer need to "phone home" or be authorized by a server. 

[2] “New” Sonar should be available on a pay-per-version or per-year model that also remains viable in its present state if a user chooses not to continue to upgrade.  (Yes I was one of the fools who trusted Gibson with 100s of dollars  for “lifetime updates,” which is why I have some cynicism here. ) 

If , on the other hand, they go to a model where a subscription is required to keep existing software running, that would be the breaking  point for me.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by martinh

[Winstonhulley88]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Analytics data is anonymized so we can’t see individual usage. However our overall user engagement is very high indeed. Average session times are quite high and we have tons of active users per day.

HI Noel, hope you are well! I just wanted to add a differant take on this situation that is presented by all the other Bandlabbers and Cakewalkers here on the forum, and this is going to go against the grain.... Grab your Popcorn after this post....

Bandlabbers= Users that got a Free Fulley Featured DAW as an extended Demo, or Beta Testing ( jip we were all beta testers for Bandlab whether you like it or not Guys) and have not spent any money on the supporting development of the core code which shaped Cakewalk to be SONAR for what is the product that Bandlabbers use today.

Cakewalkers= Former CakeWalk and SONAR users that spent endless money on updates, upgrades, lifetime failed promises etc  essentially Users that were dropped in the Muck by Cakewalk and then Roland/ Gibson and was offerd a life line with a vague promise by a company called Bandlab.

What a great life line that was... my old cakewalk accounts was seamlessly transferrd to Bandlab servers (with all my user data of course). AND then a month thereafter we ( Calkwalkers ) we enlighted that we are priviledged by the kindness of Mr Meng that we will have a "version" of Cakewalk aka Sonar Plat with out third party software FREE FOREVER!!!!! And I was wondering... wait, where's the catch.. the hook????

I thought no freakin way... this is to good to be true!! So I installed my copy and thought... well this is awesome... moved all my old and existing work seamlessly across and started right away... until after 15days... "thank you for using the trial version of Sonar, please activate it to use it after the trial period" popped up.......then It asked me to activate my copy of Cakewalk or Sonar so to speak.....

So under a differant user name I asked in the forum why is this happening? One of the offical staff members replied " sorry for the inconvience, it was an oversight and assured me that Cakewalk by Bandlab is indeed FREE.... THAT was my undertaking in using the product. So I asked.. but will it be FREE FOREVER and the Staffer Said that Bandlab by Cakewalk would be FREE forever but in the future extra  additions would be charged for. So I said ok fine but will the Core program be free FOREVER and HE Said YES! Even the original pop up under the now "Legacy" Website still states the following "

Cakewalk by BandLab is free.
Get the award-winning DAW now.

Following the acquisition of certain assets and the complete set of intellectual property of Cakewalk Inc. from Gibson Brands on 2/23/18, BandLab Technologies announced the relaunch of SONAR as Cakewalk by BandLab - available free-to-download to all BandLab users worldwide.

so this is my understanding,   as the end user and owner of a PAID for and upgraded 4 TIMES Of SONAR or now Sonar (For semantics sake) that from the time that my user accounts with my data which coincidentally also formed part of GIbsons intellectual property that was purchsed by Bandlab actually automatically entitles me to a FREE upgrade to the new Sonar... as It was told to me that the Core Program under Bandlabs Aquisition  would be FREE FOREVER... so there is that... 

However then I realised that when I had to reactivate my Bandlab product actually "SONAR" every 6 month i realised that I smell a RAT in the bakers kitchen and that I have possibly be lied to... as freeware NEVER HAS TO BE ACTIVATED!!! So was Cakewalk by Bandlab Free???? NO!!! What was the cost to us as users... TO be spied upon and telemetrics recorded (sound similar to microsoft does it not?) So yes we did pay for Cakewalk by Bandlab, we did beta testing for them by using it for thousands of hours under a false pretence of that it will be free, and we actually SOLD our user data to build their data base so that they could sell it to "investors" and now they RICK ROLLED THE LEGITIMATE CAKEWALK USERS... I cannot open my Cakewalk by Bandlab user projects under any of my former SONAR programs which i Paid for because the "newer"cakewalk makes the files INCOMPATIBLE to the previous versions of Sonar. 

So what Bandlab has effectively done was give Bandlabbers a demo version of Sonar under the false pretense that it was free.... And gave use Cakewalkers big fat stinking LIE when we were given options at Gibsons demise to Crossgrade to other DAWs. Remember Noel... when you and your team was with Cakewalk, whether it was with Cakewalk, Roland, Gibson all the monies we paid for SONAR and all the subsequent Upgrades and UPdates was used to invest in your salaries and in the development of SONAR, Cakewalk by Bandlab and Sonar... so technically we  THE FORMER USER BASE of Cakewalk are also INVESTORS!!!

However.. I understand that salaries must be paid for, return on investments must be accounted for etc.... so my proposal is this...

Release the last version of Cakewalk by Bandlab for free to your existing database of users completely with no strings (no activations) attached to honour your FREE commitment by MR MENG and then charge a crossgrade for those who want to "migrate" to the new Sonar... Idon't support subscriptions but I fully support THE RENT TO OWN perpetual licence holder.  Meaning to those that pay monthly installments and after 12 months actually will own a fully perpetuall licence of the NEW Sonar.  In all honesty the new rquirements for the new Sonar will destroy my studio as I have been managing The Bandlab Cakewalk just fine on my machines which are medium spec.. the new version will kill my system and no i dont need any visual upgrades.. everything is working great as it is currently thanks!

BEFORE you first worlders jump on my case... I am from Africa where we are not as affluent as the Europeans and Americans where we can just PAY IT UP where we have used a product that was offer FOR Forever FREE!

Consider all scenarios please... there are Third World Countries and our Producers that have also adopted and adapted to the Cakewalk free Ecosysytem!!

Thanks for reading and great appreciation for an excellent product!

 

[michaelhanson]

26 minutes ago, martinh said:

[2] “New” Sonar should be available on a pay-per-version or per-year model that also remains viable in its present state if a user chooses not to continue to upgrade.  (Yes I was one of the fools who trusted Gibson with 100s of dollars  for “lifetime updates,” which is why I have some cynicism here. ) 

Martin,

I've seen others calling Lifetime subscribers as fools, naive or having some general lack of wisdom.....as in what did you expect. 

I suspect that most assessed the situation as I did.  We were paying for regular updates anyway or we were on the current Gibson subscription model.  I knew it was a gamble, but no more than buying into any piece of software.  For the price at the time, it was a reasonable gamble that the company "could" stay alive, but if it didn't make it and honor, it wasn't a huge monetary loss.  The odds were certainly better than betting in Vegas.  

To your point though about cynicism, I can relate.  Burn me once, not to get burned twice. 

Incidentally, my Gibson LP's are still my best instruments and since new management took over Gibson, the 2019 to present guitars are pretty spectacular.   

[Keni]

1 hour ago, EnglandBross said:

 ... because of it's free ?

wait for news ! ??

Maybe some, but more so because it's GREAT!

[InstrEd]

56 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

Where can we send a box of tissues?

I don't think one box will be enough ?

[InstrEd]

1 hour ago, Alan Tubbs said:

Here here Ed.  I lost my fav synth too when Alchemy went Mac only and a lot of libraries, too.  Where do I go to get my investment back?  Maybe Cakewalk should pay since that was the DAW I was using.  Yea, that’s the ticket.

Me too on the libraries I brought.   Talking about it now has me thinking I could use some tissue myself

[Noel Borthwick]

45 minutes ago, Keni said:

Maybe some, but more so because it's GREAT!

Exactly. Free doesn't equate to high engagement. BandLab has more than 70 million users and is obviously free but their user engagement metrics are not close to ours.

[garybrun]

The one thing I really appreciated about Cakewalk being free at the time was that the developers were not under pressure each year to bring out new features as if it was a paid version.  Many bugs have been fixed in Cakewalk since Bandlab took over.

[martinh]

2 hours ago, michaelhanson said:

Martin,

I've seen others calling Lifetime subscribers as fools, naive or having some general lack of wisdom.....as in what did you expect. 

I suspect that most assessed the situation as I did.  We were paying for regular updates anyway or we were on the current Gibson subscription model.  I knew it was a gamble, but no more than buying into any piece of software.  For the price at the time, it was a reasonable gamble that the company "could" stay alive, but if it didn't make it and honor, it wasn't a huge monetary loss.  The odds were certainly better than betting in Vegas.  

To your point though about cynicism, I can relate.  Burn me once, not to get burned twice. 

Incidentally, my Gibson LP's are still my best instruments and since new management took over Gibson, the 2019 to present guitars are pretty spectacular.   

I have to admit the financial loss was minimal compared to some other software/equipment I have purchased over the years .  My irritation was more with  the entire   Henry Juszkiewicz dog and pony show and the fact that new ( and not always useful) features were clearly being prioritized over stability and bug fixes.  IMO  Bandlab had done an excellent job on stabilizing a platform that had a deserved, if sometimes overexaggerated reputation for locking up to a white screen in the middle of a project. 

 My '72 Deluxe  is still going strong  

[InstrEd]

1 hour ago, garybrun said:

The one thing I really appreciated about Cakewalk being free at the time was that the developers were not under pressure each year to bring out new features as if it was a paid version.  Many bugs have been fixed in Cakewalk since Bandlab took over.

Now my hope is this trend doesn't stop going forward.

[kc23]

5 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

Where can we send a box of tissues?

 

4 hours ago, InstrEd said:

I don't think one box will be enough ?

This is exactly the kind of attitude that made the cakewalk "folk" so famous for. Responses and reactions to posts, with unneeded snobbery, belittlement, and disregard for any other opinion but yours. The "how dare you criticize MY daw and MY views?" stance of a toddler, that is actually the behavior that indicates the... hurt mentality of someone who actually would need tissues to clean... their tears up. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Winstonhulley88 said:

Release the last version of Cakewalk by Bandlab for free to your existing database of users completely with no strings (no activations) attached to honour your FREE commitment by MR MENG

100% agree with this whole post. Just will make, again, the same remark: a "pay 12 months and then keep whatever state your daw got frozen" is not a "pay to own perpetual license". If payment is demanded just for bugfixing it, it is in fact a subscription.

Also, despite been asked the question repeatedly,  they have been very careful to NOT say that the 6 month authorization "requirement" will be lifted. So I would say, rest assured that it will not, which gives the current version a 6 month lifespan from the moment  of your last authorization, or the new paid version is released.

 

3 hours ago, garybrun said:

The one thing I really appreciated about Cakewalk being free at the time was that the developers were not under pressure each year to bring out new features as if it was a paid version.  Many bugs have been fixed in Cakewalk since Bandlab took over.

Well, actually no. Do you think they have been working for free? They are being paid, it´s their job, and hopefully they like it. But it´s not like they have been doing this "out of the goodness of their hearts."

 

Keep in mind, again, Bandlab is not a little independent company, run by three or four guys in a garage. Quite the opposite.

[tulamide]

9 hours ago, Larioso said:

Different strokes for different folks, if that is the english expresssion.

- I left StudioOne for good old Sonar Artist 2015

- showstopper issues in how all midi is transformed into automation, so first occurance of a midi CC will be used as start value for clip too and not sent where it occured.

- no sysex support

- found that 5-6 feature requests I had for StudioOne was already in Sonar.

- to get access to StudioOne script language you need to be Illuminati, kind of, just fragments revealed to public

- CAL is open to anybody

- to get something like Dim on solo in StudioOne, you had to use a separate out(Anderton had a tip for that)

 

I use daw as close as possible to tape recorder, no fancy stretching audio and stuff. Record all in realtime, program nothing.

Since 10 years moved everything just about to external midi gear, synths, piano, hammond, drums apart from bass and guitars as lifelong companions.

 

Before StudioOne I ran Cubase Pro 9.5, and least resistance was to go to StudioOne since Cubase track templates could be imported directly. So one thing for Cakewalk to think about, making people transition - low threshold.

- Cubase support OMF, but then no midi included. Their xml files for track template works fine over to StudioOne.

- StudioOne support AAF, also no midi. I actually moved most projects from Cubase over to Sonar instead.

- I used EDL to move from Reaper to Samplitude, everything included if making midi clip a file on disk first

 

Lowering threshold to switch daw....cost is irrelevant to what gear I invested in....

I love that you share your experiences. Thank you very much for it. I will make good use of it. For example, if it turns out that your experiences from 2015 are still valid in 2023, it will be a warning sign for me regarding Studio One.

I also see that we have different demands for a DAW, which is just natural, but allows me to set your experiences in  context. Which is also important. And without going into details (I don't think, this thread is the right place for it), I just point you to the fact that CAL is deprecated. As long as it runs on current OS versions, it will be part of Cakewalk. But it won't be updated nor bug fixed anymore.

Thanks again for the valuable information shared here!

[OeAi]

Well, there was a warning in Cbb some time ago, like you got 12 days to activate or something, that was quite frustrating.
if BandLab  goes to a better hardware and software, excluding old windows XP users, maybe it's not that bad in terms of going to the future and not only to backward compatibility. But as for users, when you got complete working and stable system it's not that good idea to start wiping system and reinstall OS or changing CPU, because a lot of installed stuff needs those keys and for example there are problems in getting and activating Sonar from steam, that actually for platinum users is a case of plugins and some registered stuff. And this old stuff actually works somehow, by the way those old minimoogs gets back to market in newer hardware, but it is still the same, i mean the support of old software should be active somehow. Getting in tests also needs a better hardware, well it's alright, people will buy new hardware and they will need a better software, so it's good to go to that market, maybe you can simply specify those used CPU instructions for old (free) version and for newer they do sometimes like you need a CPU with 20nm technology process, basically old instructions should be compatible with new CPU, but the speed of light can be different this way, better hardware, better latencies, AI features, better multiprocessing, people needs it for sure.

Edited June 14, 2023 by OeAi

[Byron Dickens]

1 hour ago, kc23 said:

 

This is exactly the kind of attitude that made the cakewalk "folk" so famous for. Responses and reactions to posts, with unneeded snobbery, belittlement, and disregard for any other opinion but yours. The "how dare you criticize MY daw and MY views?" stance of a toddler, that is actually the behavior that indicates the... hurt mentality of someone who actually would need tissues to clean... their tears up.

Well bless your heart....

[InstrEd]

1 hour ago, kc23 said:

This is exactly the kind of attitude that made the cakewalk "folk" so famous for.

I'm hardly famous

Seriously we all have been burned by something not working properly, going bad right after warranty, etc..............

My point is as an adult you have to learn to move along!   You're right I do have a place in my heart for Cakewalk as it is the first DAW I started with and I'm the most comfortable with over the years. But I have quite a few DAW's but as I gotten older I learned that each has pluses and minuses. 

.............. and yes I am known as a prankster/joker on here but also in the flesh too.   It is who I am and I mostly hang out in the Coffee House.   Sorry if you got offended by my off-handed humor.

Peace ? ?

[jgarland]

On 6/7/2023 at 4:26 AM, Take59 said:

What happens to users who are entitled to Lifetime Updates on SONAR Platinum? SONAR Platinum was discontinued shortly after I paid the lifetime update fee. I think it will be a problem if the rights are not continued in the new SONAR.

I respectfully say take it up with Gibson, they are the ones who shafted you (and me), not Bandlab.