Starship Krupa Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: Yes, I was composing from muscle memory and not musical imagination. With pen and paper there's the music in my mind and the page. When you write with VSTi's you end up writing for the samples you've got instead of them playing the music you made. Notation also gives you an overview of the harmony, voice leading structure, timbre, and motivic development that a piano roll cannot provide. I can see that. And I GET that even though you said "you" that you're talking about your own process, not making a statement about how anyone else should work. Obviously, there are many, many very talented and successful composers who work entirely in the box. When I read what you wrote it reminds me of how some fiction writers still prefer to use typewriters. You have to have the idea in your head and be confident with it before you commit it to paper, whereas with computer tools, your mind can wander and you can always cut, copy, and paste stuff around. There are just too damn many possibilities when creating with a computer, which is one reason there are so many YouTube videos about how to actually COMPLETE songs. It seems like you fell into a rabbit hole and found a way out. And the visual language of real music notation vs. colored blocks on a grid, there's no contest. Visually, the piano roll is just sideways Tetris. If you can read, you can look at sheet music and hum the tune, and that's not going to happen with the piano roll (you'd just insert "Hum-a-nizer.vst3" on the track and hit Play anyway). For me, I don't even know what "voice leading" is (I'm sure that as with music theory in general, I already use it but don't know what it's called), and I think the DAW is great for motifs because I can copy phrases and just sprinkle 'em around. ? Also, my notation reading and writing skills are....underdeveloped to put it kindly. Forget sight reading, I usually need to write some note letters down next to the notes in the 1st couple of bars before I can work my way through sheet music. I suppose I'm coming at scoring from the opposite direction: although I've wanted for decades to be able to compose orchestral music (and I have done it several times in my head while lucid dreaming, so the data must be up there somewhere ?), it would be impossible for me without using a DAW. I didn't even start trying until I got the (don't laugh) Orchestral Companions from Sonivox to use as backgrounds and then started to think I could compose something with just orchestral sounds. You mention timbre, and that's another area where I think composing with a DAW can actually give an advantage, and it's sort of the other side of the coin that you mention. Timbres do greatly influence the musical choices I make, be they synthetic or orchestral samples. I'm coming at it from a naive direction. Never formally studied orchestral composition, just took a couple of years of piano (with some good basic theory mixed in). Timbre is as much of an element that I "write" with as melody, rhythm, harmony, and the rest. Most of my favorite ideas (including "Sensation") have come from browsing presets in my synths until I find a sound that triggers me emotionally. Then letting my mind come up with a way to use that sound. Sometimes the sound happens in my head first, then I figure out how to make that sound, but very often, it is the instrument that is the starting point. I understand that I'm talking about a different thing, electronic music vs. orchestral, but the same thing can go for orchestral music: I find a good cello sound or harpsichord or whatever and it sparks something. This is especially true for arpeggio patches. I struggled with the idea that building a song around an arp patch is "cheating" or "unoriginal," but some of my favorite songs are built around arpeggiated synths ("Blue Monday," "Little Fluffy Clouds") and ostinatos were around for a looooonnnnnng time before the first sequencer came along ("Linus and Lucy" is the one that always comes to mind). So the hell with it. I'll leave it to someone else to diss my music, I don't need to do it myself. I've written songs that started with lyrics, chord progressions (piano or guitar), bass lines, melodies (usually suggested by a lyric), and definitely timbres. I'll take anything, basically. If it's a good idea, other ideas will flow from it and fill out the song. Thanks for replying, it's cool to hear about these things are from the perspective of a trained composer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, pbognar said: Learn to play keyboards A four bar loop is not a song Don't start a composition with a beat or bass line Don't produce while you're trying to write a song Master the things you own Compose with the instrument you know the best Compose with an instrument you aren't good at Start with an outline for a song A few of those sound like oblique strategies. A four bar loop by itself is not a song, but if you do something over that four bar loop, like play saxophone or rap, it can turn into one. I've started multiple songs (even finished a couple) that started as beats and/or bass lines. I don't think I've ever started a song with an outline. Taking piano lessons with a teacher who is sympathetic to your goals and teaches theory along with it is definitely something I'd recommend to anyone wanting to learn more about how music works. By "sympathetic to your goals" I mean someone who is willing to teach you popular idioms rather than preparing you to become a concert pianist (assuming you're interested in popular music rather than becoming a concert pianist). And speaking of learning how to play, setting the DAW part aside, I would tell my teenage self that in order to play bass in a rock band, you can get by just playing the root note of whatever chord the rhythm guitar player is playing. Then go from there. That would have been very valuable information. Also as a guitarist, if you want to play power chords, just play the top 3 strings and go through a distortion box. The other 3 strings will just clutter up the sound and the distortion will fill in the harmonics. Also: when playing barre chords, you don't need to barre across the strings where your other 3 fingers are playing notes. I mean, duh, but it takes beginners a long time to figure that one out. Your index finger doesn't need to be a friggin' capo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vogel Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 If I could do it over - I would defy my father’s wishes and follow the path to music that had been laid out for me by some of my teachers. Sadly my dad didn’t see music as a valid career choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 When Gibson say "lifetime" they actually mean a few months. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 - Learn the tools you have rather than looking for new toys tools to solve a problem - Listen to what other people say - Don't listen to what other people say (eh?) - The perfect is the enemy of the good: just make as much music as you can and you'll get better - Vapor Trails is not an album whose sound you should aspire to 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfssongs Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) Not sure where I read it, but I once saw a comment that said there are as many ways of writing a song as there are songs. So I try everything. One direction one day - the opposite direction maybe the next. But writing it down first - that is never going to happen again for me. It just kills my mood. But I suppose what you are trying to accomplish might guide many of those choices. For me - this is what keeps me sane (kind of). Edited May 23, 2023 by rfssongs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 You don't have to believe in yourself. Just do the work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Roller Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 I would have consumed less alcohol and drugs, taken better care of myself so I live long enough to take advantage of AI to write, compose, sing, play all the instruments, mix, produce and promote my music. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) If I could go back I would have to tell myself , When all is said and done , it is the song that counts the most . The emotional impact of the song itself is the thing people will remember the most . As an artist that is where your focus should be . Take them on an emotional ride that means something to them . Even if they don't know what they are looking for .... Let them find what they are looking for in YOU and your Music . Kenny Edited May 31, 2023 by kennywtelejazz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectm Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Remember to take breaks. Get some exercise?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfssongs Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Some people (like me) write through improvisation not as much through pre-planning. Check out Paul McCartney's "The Lyrics". This is I think, part of what McCartney is saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW5011 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Good discussion! I'd tell my past self to make more music, freeing up more time for that by spending less time learning about it (whether reading or YouTube) and less time researching plugins. Nothing wrong with those things, of course, and they are helpful, but making music is my ultimate goal here, and sometimes I spend too much time on research. Also, experience is worth more than reading more about it. Actually finishing songs and aiming for professional quality is more valuable than just reading about it, IMO. Plus, songs get made along the way! Not all the songs will be great, but they are part of the process of improving as an artist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Oh yeah... I'd tell my past self to NOT sell stock to go on a 39-day Europe trip back in 1981, but to use it to buy Microsoft stock instead! Then I would advise myself to NOT buy anything on credit and to just pay for it in full. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfssongs Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 hours ago, craigb said: Oh yeah... I'd tell my past self to NOT sell stock to go on a 39-day Europe trip back in 1981, but to use it to buy Microsoft stock instead! Then I would advise myself to NOT buy anything on credit and to just pay for it in full. Looks like a bunch of wayward musicians to me...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 5 hours ago, rfssongs said: Looks like a bunch of wayward musicians to me...... One ended up with a pretty cool studio on his yacht! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 8 hours ago, craigb said: One ended up with a pretty cool studio on his yacht! Pah! Where's the lava lamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Wibbles said: Pah! Where's the lava lamp? CJ stole them. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 19 hours ago, craigb said: One ended up with a pretty cool studio on his yacht! Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Grem said: Which one? Paul Allen's Octopus yacht. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) On 6/3/2023 at 2:08 AM, craigb said: One ended up with a pretty cool studio on his yacht! Given the choice between that lovely lady holding the tennis racket you posted in another thread or this studio . If I had to choose ... I can't answer ..I'm stumped Kenny Edited June 6, 2023 by kennywtelejazz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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