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Infernal Synth - Open Source

marlowg01

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Bruno de Souza Lino

Bruno de Souza Lino

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This plugin requires a CPU with AVX instructions to work. I won't be able to test it myself, but I'd say that has to be the best example of "User Interface is only a beauty tack on top of functionality" type of deal. I can't even make sense of how the signal path goes and I'm still not sure even after reading the manual.

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user 905133

user 905133

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I'm not to wild about the subliminal infernal images (too creepy for me), so I looked to see if that could be changed:

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Due to VST3's bundle format, InfernalSynth can easily be themed if you're comfortable editing json files.
Look for the "colors" section near the top of the controller.uidesc file in Contents/Resources/UI.
Editing anything other than the colors is not likely to be forward-compatible though.
The background images live in the same folder, they can be swapped for anything else as long as the other image has the same dimensions.

  • Just did a quick 5 minute test hosted in Voltage Modular.  It will take more time to test more controls to see what they do and how they interact. Some preliminary observations:
    • The initialized sound comes up immediately on my 2011 PC.  (Not sure if I have AVX Instructions.)
    • Many of the controls I tested (switches, knobs, dialogs, menus, etc.) do stuff. I just don't know what.  (Need to glance at the manual for more details.)
    • I estimated there are between 2000 and 3000 parameters exposed.
    • There's a synth vst3 and an FX vst3.  (I did not test the FX only plug-in yet.)
30 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

I can't even make sense of how the signal path goes and I'm still not sure even after reading the manual.

Maybe the manual won't be as useful to me as I thought; I'll have to look at it.  So far I just looked at the modules (from upper left, down the first column, second column top section then bottom section, third column (FX, CV parameters, Multi-Purpose envelopes).  There seems to be some logic built-into, but those creepy images have been distracting me from trying to understand the flow.

Maybe once I swap out those images, I will be able to focus more on what each of the controls does. 

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craigb

craigb

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12 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

... those creepy images have been distracting me from trying to understand the flow.

Maybe once I swap out those images, I will be able to focus more on what each of the controls does. 

Yikes!  No kidding! ?

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sjoerd

sjoerd

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Hi all!

Always nice to see my spare time hobby project spark a discussion.

  • This plugin requires a CPU with AVX instructions to work - jup, but I could easily do an SSE4 or older CPU build. Would be a less performant plugin, of course.
  • No Mac! - Never will be unless someone decides to buy me a mac. Working on linux support though, because I can just test on a VM. Not possible without buying OSX.
  • Not working in flstudio, anyone has luck with it? - FL Studio is explicitly supported, it's one of the hosts I test myself. Even worked with image line to have a bug related to infernal fixed in fl studio, they were very supportive. If you like we can work together to find out whats wrong, but that'll take some time on your part, too. Unless you're on an old CPU without AVX, then I could just do an SSE build.
  • I estimated there are between 2000 and 3000 parameters exposed - around 1600, actually, but "only" around 250 unique ones (e.g. not counting fx1 filter freq, fx2 filter freq, fx3 filter freq etc).
  • I can't even make sense of how the signal path goes - the little triangles in the UI lay out exactly how the signal path flows, as does the routing diagram in the manual: https://github.com/sjoerdvankreel/infernal-synth/blob/main/MANUAL.md. If you want to know more, i'd be happy to clarify.
  • Maybe once I swap out those images, I will be able to focus more on what each of the controls does. - See here https://audiosex.pro/threads/sjoerdvankreel-infernalsynth-was-anyone-able-to-get-this-to-work.69579/ for some nice alternatives :)

Just to be very clear on what infernal is and is not, it's my personal playground/hobby project/learning project. I basically took every free/open source algorithm out there and decided to put it in a single softsynth. It's also my first plugin ever. Infernal contains absolutely nothing new in terms of synthesis possibilities. It's just that I tried to combine all that free stuff under a single roof, so to speak. The entire demo tune was done using infernal only, no samples, no other plugins.

Apart from myself and a handful of other users, everyone and their mother seems to hate the ui. I'm currently trying to rewrite that to be a bit more traditional, but that's starting to look like a ~1year project. Here is a rough sketch of what the oscillator section might look like. Any feedback welcome.

image.png.6dfefaa6b0e4fd2beaa46253292f8178.png

Also, if anything's not working as expected, just drop me a mail! My personal email is on the project website.

Cheers!  -Sjoerd

 

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Vst0nE

Vst0nE

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, sjoerd said:

Hi all!

Always nice to see my spare time hobby project spark a discussion.

  • This plugin requires a CPU with AVX instructions to work - jup, but I could easily do an SSE4 or older CPU build. Would be a less performant plugin, of course.
  • No Mac! - Never will be unless someone decides to buy me a mac. Working on linux support though, because I can just test on a VM. Not possible without buying OSX.
  • Not working in flstudio, anyone has luck with it? - FL Studio is explicitly supported, it's one of the hosts I test myself. Even worked with image line to have a bug related to infernal fixed in fl studio, they were very supportive. If you like we can work together to find out whats wrong, but that'll take some time on your part, too. Unless you're on an old CPU without AVX, then I could just do an SSE build.
  • I estimated there are between 2000 and 3000 parameters exposed - around 1600, actually, but "only" around 250 unique ones (e.g. not counting fx1 filter freq, fx2 filter freq, fx3 filter freq etc).
  • I can't even make sense of how the signal path goes - the little triangles in the UI lay out exactly how the signal path flows, as does the routing diagram in the manual: https://github.com/sjoerdvankreel/infernal-synth/blob/main/MANUAL.md. If you want to know more, i'd be happy to clarify.
  • Maybe once I swap out those images, I will be able to focus more on what each of the controls does. - See here https://audiosex.pro/threads/sjoerdvankreel-infernalsynth-was-anyone-able-to-get-this-to-work.69579/ for some nice alternatives :)

Just to be very clear on what infernal is and is not, it's my personal playground/hobby project/learning project. I basically took every free/open source algorithm out there and decided to put it in a single softsynth. It's also my first plugin ever. Infernal contains absolutely nothing new in terms of synthesis possibilities. It's just that I tried to combine all that free stuff under a single roof, so to speak. The entire demo tune was done using infernal only, no samples, no other plugins.

Apart from myself and a handful of other users, everyone and their mother seems to hate the ui. I'm currently trying to rewrite that to be a bit more traditional, but that's starting to look like a ~1year project. Here is a rough sketch of what the oscillator section might look like. Any feedback welcome.

image.png.6dfefaa6b0e4fd2beaa46253292f8178.png

Also, if anything's not working as expected, just drop me a mail! My personal email is on the project website.

Cheers!  -Sjoerd

 

regarding flstudio, there are 2 folders in zip,,,,which one to use and copy to VST3 folder? normal or generic? also it says V1.1 not v 1.1.3 inside zip

when opening in flstudio it gives error that i am trying to open synth in effect channel or visa versa, however it does not work both ways anyway

i have placed many vst in flstudio vst3 folder but your synth has issues to be opened as synth

please make clear video how to install

 

 

 

 

Edited by dee
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sjoerd

sjoerd

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16 hours ago, dee said:

regarding flstudio, there are 2 folders in zip,,,,which one to use and copy to VST3 folder? normal or generic? also it says V1.1 not v 1.1.3 inside zip

when opening in flstudio it gives error that i am trying to open synth in effect channel or visa versa, however it does not work both ways anyway

i have placed many vst in flstudio vst3 folder but your synth has issues to be opened as synth

please make clear video how to install

 

 

 

 

  • regarding flstudio, there are 2 folders in zip => Either of them should work. Even both side-by-side. But preferably, use the "1.1" version.
  • also it says V1.1 not v 1.1.3 inside zip => Yeah, I should really clean up that version stuff someday. But it's probably not what's causing you issues.
  • i have placed many vst in flstudio vst3 folder => That's exactly how infernal should be installed. Just download, unzip, copy to VST3 directory.
  • please make clear video how to install => Attaching a zipped mp4 video of the installation and the plugin subsequently showing up in fl studio.

In all fairness though I really don't think you did anything wrong with the "installation". Like you said, it's just download, unzip, copy. It's more likely that your machine/os is incompatible with the plugin. What os are you running? Is it 64-bit? Is your FL studio version 64-bit? (probably yeah, but just checking.) And of course, do you have a cpu with avx support? You can find out with a tool such as this: https://www.hwinfo.com/

 

infernal_install.zip

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Vst0nE

Vst0nE

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flstudio and win 64bit, i have cpu i9 9900K,,,seems not supported so now we know...that will limit a lot of people ufortunatelly, if you can make version for my cpu let me know..thx

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user 905133

user 905133

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15 minutes ago, dee said:

i have cpu i9 9900K,,,seems not supported . . . if you can make version for my cpu let me know..thx

FWIW: According to HWInfo64, my PC (2011 era) has an Intel Core i5-3470 which supports AVX.  I haven't played around any more than I did the other day, but InfernalSynth loads, runs, and plays sounds.  I used Voltage Modular as my plug-in host to test.

Quote

Core i9-9900K is a 64-bit octa-core high-end performance x86 desktop microprocessor introduced by Intel in late 2018.

I am curious why InfernalSynth would work on older CPUs but not newer ones.  I don't need to know why, but I am just wondering because I have seen other cases where my older PC can do things when newer PCs can't. 

Quote

This plugin requires a CPU with AVX instructions to work - jup, but I could easily do an SSE4 or older CPU build. Would be a less performant plugin, of course.

I thought my PC was ancient, but it has AVX as well as SSE4.1 and SSE4.2.  Anyhow, thanks for the InfernalSynth and for all the details you have been sharing in this thread!! 

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sjoerd

sjoerd

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Trying again as my previous comment didn't come through. @moderator is it inappropriate to discuss FL studio related stuff over here? If so I'd be happy to move the conversation somewhere else.

@dee: i9 should definately work. If you're up for it we can try to find out what's wrong, but that'll involve some help from you, too.

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user 905133

user 905133

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19 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

AVX (Advanced Vector Extensions) were added to Intel CPUs in the Sandy Bridge architecture and on the Bulldozer like for AMD in 2011. If it needed AVX2, that came in 2013.

If you are able to install and use MODO Drum, your CPU has AVX instructions, as the installer will refuse to run without it.

Thanks for this insight!  My previous music PC couldn't handle Sample Tank 4, Syntronik 2, and a number of the newer IK programs. I had been wondering if it was due to graphics library changes (e.g., OpenGL), but CPU support for newer command sets/technology might have been the cause.  MODO BASS works, but MODO DRUM has an AVX-required warning.  Also, I have been seeking help from Arturia support since some of their recent (2023) updates totally mess up the graphics on my PCs.  My PC meets the current requirements which specify OpenGL2, but thanks to you I am now beginning to wonder if they switched to some newer CPU graphics command sets/technology.

Apologies for the off topic discussion (its not about InfernalSynth), but I think it fits with the discussion of extended instructions required to make some soft synths work.

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Doug Rintoul

Doug Rintoul

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On 5/11/2023 at 11:42 AM, dee said:

flstudio and win 64bit, i have cpu i9 9900K,,,seems not supported so now we know...that will limit a lot of people ufortunatelly, if you can make version for my cpu let me know..thx

The i9 9900K does support AVX, and AVX2 but not AVX512. So that should not be the issue with Infernal. 

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Vst0nE

Vst0nE

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On 5/12/2023 at 5:36 PM, sjoerd said:

Trying again as my previous comment didn't come through. @moderator is it inappropriate to discuss FL studio related stuff over here? If so I'd be happy to move the conversation somewhere else.

@dee: i9 should definately work. If you're up for it we can try to find out what's wrong, but that'll involve some help from you, too.

well, i tried but it just does not open, do you have flstudio?

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