hockeyjx Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 I've always enjoyed reading musician or band biographies, and boy howdy, there is high drama in the Motley Crue camp! It just goes to show how some bands are just a brand and a business! Mick may not be able to tour, but it sounds like the band wants him out of ALL of the corporations. Cheap Trick did this to Bun E. Carlos years back and got their asses handed to them in court. I hope the same happens here. Personally, I find the allegations of pre-recorded everything to be fascinating(as it is a current trend). I wonder how bad Vince Meal would sound if he was really sing live!https://blabbermouth.net/news/mick-mars-on-his-motley-crue-bandmates-i-carried-these-bastards-for-years?fbclid=IwAR2oV3zplASeI2ESgcNqvOSQWi-1iy-Rfu4A20Ylf4d2ZShi3YmRiRxYHe8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Wow! I do not think Motley Crue would have been what they are without that guitar player. Well I will be watching with my ORPC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 2 hours ago, hockeyjx said: I wonder how bad Vince Meal would sound if he was really sing live! A quick YouTube search will show you that. Or at least how it sounds nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyjx Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: A quick YouTube search will show you that. Or at least how it sounds nowadays. Oh, I know how bad based on shows from 15/20 years ago. But it is claimed that what you are hearing ARE pre-recorded vocals now ...if so, I'd hate to hear actual live ones, because pre-recorded sound AWFUL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Yeah Vince never was much of a singer. I think he barely made "good enough" status. But ya gotta give it to him, his melodic hooks were part of the sound of the Crue. "Live Wire" is a great example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Joad Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 KISS is going through the same thing, The problem is these old bands can't move on to new music and the fans don't want them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 10 hours ago, hockeyjx said: Oh, I know how bad based on shows from 15/20 years ago. But it is claimed that what you are hearing ARE pre-recorded vocals now ...if so, I'd hate to hear actual live ones, because pre-recorded sound AWFUL! It's Milli Vanilli 2.0 except they let the models sing instead of hiring actual singers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Old Joad said: KISS is going through the same thing, The problem is these old bands can't move on to new music and the fans don't want them to. I am a big fan of Ace in the early days - he played with a swagger that could never be duplicated by the guitarists who replaced him. And he was so freakin' cool... But I think that nowadays, 99% of the time, Tommy is a better Spaceman than Ace himself could be. Not to mention that he's solid, reliable, and consistent. If I had to share the stage every night with someone, these are qualities that would by far eclipse the occasional night of magic. And then there's all the offstage drama. Some people accuse Paul of taking shots at Ace in his biography, but having read Ace's own biography first, I could see how Paul was making many very valid points. I'd always thought of Ace as the cool one, and Paul and Gene as the square, control freaks - but reading Ace's own account of the story, I realized how awful it must have been to put up with him and Peter. Not that Gene and Paul don't have their own faults, but I've been in enough bands to know that people like Ace and Peter are usually the ones who make my life impossible and make me want to hit them in the back of the head in the hope that it will trigger a reset. Paul's voice has been busted for nearly 20 years now, but to be honest, watching bits of Ace live, I doubt that anyone would care if he wasn't Ex-KISS Ace Frehley. The performances I've seen mostly ranged from bad to mediocre. I see people, including firends of mine, my KISS-pals, getting all excited, but I can't help thinking that they're not being very objective. If they walked into a bar and heard an unknown playing like that, they would probably boo him off the stage. I think that Paul is correct, not because he himself is still good, but in that Tommy and Eric are holding the band together musically. KISS could not (barely) get away with it if Paul and Gene didn't have those two and tapes. And the same goes for Ace - if he wasn't backed up by solid musicians but by pople of his own calibre, his band would sound pretty awful. Edited April 8, 2023 by Rain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Old Joad said: KISS is going through the same thing, The problem is these old bands can't move on to new music and the fans don't want them to. A bigger problem is that these old bands should get a grip at this point and understand that everything has to end at some point, especially if they're not releasing new material. There's little point in paying to watch live versions of songs which get worse as the time progresses, IMO. Imagine if Neal Schon suddenly decided that Arnel Pineda should get the boot and Steve Perry get the position back as the main Journey guy when his drug abuse destroyed his voice to the point he can barely sing in tune. Edited April 8, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyjx Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 A saying I live by when going out socially applies here: Better to leave a little early and have people miss you and wish you stayed, then to stay too long and have people remember you for lingering too long. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 4 hours ago, hockeyjx said: then to stay too long and have people remember you for lingering too long. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Rain said: a big fan of Ace in the early days - he played with a swagger that could never be duplicated by the guitarists who replaced him. Yep. Agreed. 15 hours ago, Rain said: Tommy is a better Spaceman than Ace himself could be. Not to mention that he's solid, reliable, and consistent. If I had to share the stage every night with someone, these are qualities that would by far eclipse the occasional night of magic. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyjx Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 18 hours ago, Rain said: But I think that nowadays, 99% of the time, Tommy is a better Spaceman than Ace himself could be. Not to mention that he's solid, reliable, and consistent. If I had to share the stage every night with someone, these are qualities that would by far eclipse the occasional night of magic. And then there's all the offstage drama. I have no doubt Tommy is a better copier off all things Ace than Ace at this point, but stealing all the signature look, gear & moves is weak. If Tommy and Eric were different personas, there would be no issue. Also, KI$$ cash in on that "magic" that Peter and Ace provided (Beth & Shock Me being two cases of the blatant ripoff). The difference with Motley Crue, is at least John 5 is still John 5 and not copying Mick in looks and stage persona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, hockeyjx said: I have no doubt Tommy is a better copier off all things Ace than Ace at this point, but stealing all the signature look, gear & moves is weak. If Tommy and Eric were different personas, there would be no issue. Also, KI$$ cash in on that "magic" that Peter and Ace provided (Beth & Shock Me being two cases of the blatant ripoff). The difference with Motley Crue, is at least John 5 is still John 5 and not copying Mick in looks and stage persona. I don't disagree. That being said, Ace and Peter sold their trademark make up, for cheap apparently, and I see KISS as a business. Maybe from all the time I spent around Cirque, I've become very aware of the business/corporate dimension of entertainment, to a point where it's hard for me to see anything else and, for some strange reason, I've learned to appreciate that dimension, as foreign as it is to me. It's not entirely new either, as Ace and Peter had their face on albums where they didn't play a note, and even a early a Destroyer, other guitarists subbed for Ace and judging from his autobiography, he never seemed to be bothered by that. Paul Stanley always says that it was an error for them to create new personas for Eric and Vinnie. Utlimately, whether I agree or disagree is unimportant. It's his and Gene's band, and they've kept the KISS brand alive, and a lot of people are willing to pay for that brand. From a business point of view, it makes sense. The Mötley Crüe case is a bit more complex for me. Seems that Mick did not actually opt out of the band as Peter and Ace did, he simply wanted to quit touring, so there's all sorts of legal ramifications to it. That being said, I like John 5, he's great. IMHO, him touring with those guys is a bit like putting a Ferrari engine in an old Pinto, but from the videos he posted on Instagram, he is doing his usual excellent job. Edited April 9, 2023 by Rain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyjx Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Rain said: That being said, I like John 5, he's great. IMHO, him touring with those guys is a bit like putting a Ferrari engine in an old Pinto, but from the videos he posted on Instagram, he is doing his usual excellent job. John 5 is a great technical player, but I can't tell you one riff he wrote. I'd rather be the "sloppy player" who wrote the iconic riffs, than the technically proficient guy who can play anything ....but can't come up with the iconic riffs. Every. Single. Time. And all you say is right about Ace. However, his solo album that he DID play on is the best of the 4 ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/9/2023 at 12:36 AM, Rain said: him touring with those guys is a bit like putting a Ferrari engine in an old Pinto In this particular case, it's like inviting a real singer to perform at a Milli Vanilli show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/8/2023 at 8:36 PM, Rain said: ... an old Pinto, Ahh... Memories! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) On 4/8/2023 at 10:36 PM, Rain said: aware of the business/corporate dimension of entertainment On 4/8/2023 at 10:36 PM, Rain said: a business point of view, it makes sense That's what a lot of people don't realize. It is a business. And sometimes decisions based on the "good of the business" is not always good for all employees. On 4/8/2023 at 10:36 PM, Rain said: It's his and Gene's band, and they've kept the KISS brand alive, and a lot of people are willing to pay for that brand Yep. And from a business standpoint, they have done an excellent job. On 4/8/2023 at 10:36 PM, Rain said: Paul Stanley always says that it was an error for them to create new personas for Eric and Vinnie Yes it was. They have made corrections based on their business plan. On 4/8/2023 at 10:36 PM, Rain said: Mick did not actually opt out of the band as Peter and Ace did, he simply wanted to quit touring Exactly. 20 hours ago, hockeyjx said: I'd rather watch the "sloppy player" who wrote the iconic riffs, than the technically proficient guy who can play anything Fixed that for ya!! I like John 5. I know who he is but can't remember the band he played in. Meanwhile I got the opening riff of Dr. Feelsgood, Kickstart My Heart, and others going through my head that Mick played. Edited April 10, 2023 by Grem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) On 4/7/2023 at 5:08 PM, pwalpwal said: The dirt is a bio I never expected could be film ised The only appropriate answer to that is either "Big Mac. $1.03" or "Poopy Butt 'Round the house." Edited April 18, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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