Best way to quickly switch between monitors(speakers) and headphones?

[pulsewalk]

There's probably several ways to do this in Cakewalk, but which is the quickest/simplest/best way to switch output from monitors(speakers) to headphones?

For A & B comparing etc.

What I want it to do is really switch between the outputs and NOT enable both at the same time. So if I "solo" the headphone output, the monitor output automatically needs to be muted.

Any ideas on this?

EDIT: I should add that my monitors are connected to one stereo output on my audio interface, and the headphones are connected to another stereo output on the audio interface. So it's down to switching between the outputs really.

Edited February 23, 2023 by pulsewalk

[pulsewalk]

Wow, is there really no way to do this properly in Cakewalk? I thought this was a quite basic option, to be able to A/B on different outputs like speakers, headphones or whatever.

[57Gregy]

Well, you could use 2 busses, one to your speaker output and the other to the HP output. Presumably, you won't be wearing the headphones while listening to the speakers. Both can be active then Solo the HP bus to listen to those, thus muting the speakers.
Probably some Sends would be involved. Or Clone all the tracks with the clones going to the HP bus, for instance.
Shoot, I vaguely remember several threads on this subject over the last 20 years, but I never had a need to do it, so 'vague' is my recollection. ?

[scook]

12 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

Well, you could use 2 busses, one to your speaker output and the other to the HP output.

This is the traditional way to create multiple mixes for monitoring and is pretty common.

 

What seems unusual is the requirement to switch between speakers and headphones on-the-fly using the same mix. Normally comparing the same mix with different monitors is done outside the DAW. That said, adding an extra bus and grouping the master and monitor mute buttons should work. 

[billp]

I did something similar to what scook describes, except that I used grouped "sends" on my monitor bus so I can toggle between the two. ("Main" = speakers):

[pulsewalk]

21 minutes ago, scook said:

This is the traditional way to create multiple mixes for monitoring and is pretty common.

 

What seems unusual is the requirement to switch between speakers and headphones on-the-fly using the same mix. Normally comparing the same mix with different monitors is done outside the DAW. That said, adding an extra bus and grouping the master and monitor mute buttons should work. 

But does this make the not sole:d one muted?

I need it to be able to switch between:

Speaker = Soloed / Headphones = Muted

and

Speaker = Muted / Headphones = Soloed

So when the speakers are playing, the headphones are quiet (yes, I can unfortunately hear them when they're on), and vice versa, that when the headphones are playing the speakers need to be quiet. I've got open headphones.

I'd also like to ask why it would be unusual to comparing the same mix on different monitors inside the DAW. Where else do people do their mixes, if not inside the DAW where they have all tracks separated?

Mastering the final stereo track in Wavelab for example is one thing, but mixing is usually done in the DAW directly.

[pulsewalk]

1 hour ago, billp said:

I did something similar to what scook describes, except that I used grouped "sends" on my monitor bus so I can toggle between the two. ("Main" = speakers):

I just tried this method, and grouped the toggle, so now it switches correctly! Thanks! Works great!

I wonder if one can put a hotkey on the toggle switch?

Edited February 24, 2023 by pulsewalk

[pulsewalk]

Damnit, the above solution is too heavy on Cakewalk, crashed it when switching. One or two switches was ok, but not when done repeatedly.

I need to do this by mute/solo instead, as that is as far as I know not doing any "hardware" switching.

[pulsewalk]

Best solution so far! Which is NOT messing with any hardware switches and a lot faster than switching HW outputs!:

What I've done is creating 2 new buses, one with output to the monitors, called MONITORS, the other with output to the headphones. called HEADPHONES

Then, on the Master bus, I selected "NONE" on the output, and instead created sends to each of above newly created buses, one to MONITORS and one to HEADPHONES.

The MUTE buttons on the MONITORS and HEADPHONES buses was grouped correctly so I quickly can switch between the two by simply clicking on either of their mute button. This way only one output is playing and the other is quiet.

Though, I wonder, is it possible to assign hotkeys to a group, so I can switch the between the output by a key on the keyboard? If yes, how do I do this?

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by pulsewalk

[pulsewalk]

1 hour ago, billp said:

I did something similar to what scook describes, except that I used grouped "sends" on my monitor bus so I can toggle between the two. ("Main" = speakers):

Just a suggestion... Check my solution above, it's faster and less heavy on Cakewalk / the CPU 

[John Vere]

Gosh, I guess I’m weird but I just take the headphones off , put them on the desk and turn the output control of my interfaces back up. I must do this a zillion times a day with out thinking about it and seems to me this is a lot less of an effort than creating a bunch of unwanted busses and dealing with muting stuff! 
Unless you’re listening to the monitors with the headphones on which I don’t recommend you should be doing. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by John Vere

[Starship Krupa]

I have multiple monitoring devices and I don't use sends. I use a dedicated "Output" bus.

Everything up to and including the Master bus is probably as anyone else would do it, but then I have the output of the Master set to my Output bus. Depending on which hardware out I wish to listen to (headphones for instance), I just set the destination of the Output bus to it.

The reason for doing it this way rather than just routing the Master right to it is that it allows me to use that Output bus as a volume control without disturbing anything on the Master bus. Other people might just use the faders on the hardware outs, but I don't like disturbing those either once I have them all set how I want (roughly equal to each other in volume).

Perhaps it's not a one-click switchover, but I don't have a need to switch outputs that quickly.

[scook]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Everything up to and including the Master bus is probably as anyone else would do it, but then I have the output of the Master set to my Output bus.

Yeah, having buses after the "master" bus before the signal leaves the DAW can be handy.

[pulsewalk]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:47 AM, John Vere said:

Gosh, I guess I’m weird but I just take the headphones off , put them on the desk and turn the output control of my interfaces back up. I must do this a zillion times a day with out thinking about it and seems to me this is a lot less of an effort than creating a bunch of unwanted busses and dealing with muting stuff! 
Unless you’re listening to the monitors with the headphones on which I don’t recommend you should be doing. 

Of course I'm not listening to my monitors with the headphones on that would distort the sound, and the mix would be really, really bad.

I'm using the one click solution just to save time. Yes, it is a little bit effort to create a couple of extra buses, I guess about 30 seconds or so, but when it's made, it's there. Then it's all downhill from there with one button click switching between outputs, something which I know I will have to do maybe hundreds of time on a mix anyway. That's the way I work anyway. And I guess there are many ways of doing this of course

[John Vere]

But you still have to put your headphones on and press a button. I put my headphones on and turn off my monitors using my interface.  I fail to see where time is saved here?  Unless your interface doesn't have any front panel controls. Mine is sitting right beside my mouse pad. I need it there as I'm always making changes as I work including Main Speaker and Headphone levels. I'm not saying you idea is bad or anything just seems that using what's already there would be just fine and you develop habits on where to reach when you need something to happen, just like turning on your windshield wipers. Your method sounds like putting that function on the touch screen of the Audio system to me.  I guess I just like the feel of Hardware ?

Edited February 26, 2023 by John Vere

[pulsewalk]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

But you still have to put your headphones on and press a button. I put my headphones on and turn off my monitors using my interface.  I fail to see where time is saved here?  Unless your interface doesn't have any front panel controls. Mine is sitting right beside my mouse pad. I need it there as I'm always making changes as I work including Main Speaker and Headphone levels. I'm not saying you idea is bad or anything just seems that using what's already there would be just fine and you develop habits on where to reach when you need something to happen, just like turning on your windshield wipers. Your method sounds like putting that function on the touch screen of the Audio system to me.  I guess I just like the feel of Hardware ?

You might have missed what I wrote earlier . One of the reasons for why I want to do a switch between outputs, rather than turning on/off my monitors only, is that I don't want my headphones to play when I'm listening to my monitors. They are even open headphones which makes it even worse, since I can hear them while they lie on my desk. And I don't want any disturbance from them when I'm listening to my monitors. So that is not an option.

That's why I want either the monitors, either the headphones to be on. And never both at the same time.

[John Vere]

Got it. I guess mine are very isolated type and I can't really hear them until I turn the monitors right off, then it's like a distant sound,  but that's a good point.   If your monitors are turned down low the headphones could be interfering with what your hearing in the room and especially ones like yours. 

If you have a midi controller you could set this up using Midi learn to solo one bus or the other. If you activate the " exclusive solo  " button in the Mix Module of the control bar then it would be a single keystroke. 

[pulsewalk]

13 minutes ago, John Vere said:

If you have a midi controller you could set this up using Midi learn to solo one bus or the other. If you activate the " exclusive solo  " button in the Mix Module of the control bar then it would be a single keystroke. 

Yes I also thought of this actually. But AFAIK it affects all solo's in the whole project, so it messes that up instead   ...but with this setup I have, where I create 2 buses for each output (monitors/headphones), then send the master to these buses while the master output is set to none, I can achieve more or less the same thing, a one click only switch between outputs (provided that I group the mute buttons correctly (1 on and 1 off)).

Though I've not figured out if I can assign a keyboard shortcut/hotkey to that specific mute button? I've not found info on that yet. Do you know if this is possible?

Edited February 26, 2023 by pulsewalk

[John Vere]

Absolutely. This is something I just figured out last summer when I was asked to play keyboards and I learned how to control Cakewalk from my Controller. 

Everything in Cakewalk that you can press or move has Midi learn built in. You access this by Right Clicking on the button or fader. In this case I right clicked the Master faders Mute button This dialogue will open

 

Select Remote control and this dialogue will open

Now you can choose a note on event or a Controller . 

Now just select Learn and either wiggle, slide or hit the control you want to assign to the function and bingo that will now toggle the Mute button on and off. I just tested it using C7 at the top of my keyboard and it works. 

This will be saved with the project, It is not global to other projects. And you must always have the keyboard controller connected before you open the project. 

Once I discovered this I am now lusting after a Controller with a lot of knobs. Mine only has 2   ;( 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by John Vere

[John Vere]

This post came to mind yesterday after I had recorded a vocal track and realized after I was finished 1 hour later,  that I had failed to turn my monitors off! argh!  This made me think of a hardware solution that I don't think exists. A switch on the front of your audio interface to choose output.