MIDI USB connection/Friendly Name issue

[Michael Forer]

Hi all. I apologize if this is not the right place for this, this is my first post here.

I am having some problems with Cakewalk 2022.11 build 021 and am hoping someone here can help. I have 3 USB-MIDI I/O cables connected to my Windows machine, via a USB hub, and they are connected to 3 different MIDI devices. 1-keyboard, 2 drum machines. They appear in Windows as "USB MIDI Interface"  in Windows, but they seem to be conflicting in Cakewalk. I've edited their Friendly names in Edit/Preferences/Midi/Devices and through a process of elimination, identified which one is connected to which device. I've changed their names and their channels accordingly and got everybody to respond for the most part, both inputs and outputs. I saved my CWP file for the project, and even tried saving the settings with a template, but no matter how I try, I can't get Cakewalk to retain the Friendly Name information. This is maddening, as I don't want to have to repeat this process, for each project.

Is this a known bug? I can't seem to find anything on it. Is there something I'm not doing correctly? (likely)

Can anyone assist?  

[bvideo]

There's a basic issue with USB MIDI interfaces: the standard for device configuration does not include a serial number or any other unique ID for MIDI interfaces. Therefore, it is difficult for the OS to distinguish one from another. Only if you are lucky, when you boot Windows it will find the interfaces in the same order it did last time, and thereby match up with the friendly names. If you ever unplug/replug one, or if  reboot or sleep/wakeup finds them in a different order, they will not match up.

There are some other discussions about this (example)

[Michael Forer]

bvideo-Thank you! At the very least, I now know that I am not losing my mind. I don't see how this is even useable though. I only have 3 MIDI interfaces, and if I have to go through a process of elimination EVERY time I come back to a project, or start a new one, that is an untenable situation, and a horrible waste of time. Since Cakewalk is really my first DAW, can you tell me if this is a problem with other DAW software packages? It's a bit unclear to me still if this is a Windows, USB or Cakewalk problem.  If it isn't a problem in other DAW packages, then I suppose it may be time for me to move to another software package, before I get too deep into this one.

Again, Thank you!!

[Byron Dickens]

12 hours ago, Michael Forer said:

I have 3 USB-MIDI I/O cables connected to my Windows machine,

If those are what I think they are, then that's probably the problem right there. How is Windows supposed to distinguish between generic devices and keep track of which is which?

12 hours ago, Michael Forer said:

via a USB hub

That could also be an issue.

It sounds like what you need is a real MIDI interface:

https://www.sweetwater.com/c677--MIDI_Interfaces

[bvideo]

A multiport midi interface supplies a group of ports in one USB connection. When that is the one and only MIDI interface on your computer, the order and friendly name assignment is never lost. Example: midi express 128.

 

[Glenn Stanton]

+1

53 minutes ago, bvideo said:

A multiport midi interface supplies a group of ports in one USB connection. When that is the one and only MIDI interface on your computer, the order and friendly name assignment is never lost. Example: midi express 128.

i have an M-Audio USB MIDI hub (4x4) and all my keyboards show up as distinct names: Keystation 49, SP-88, Q49 etc. even my Proteus rack unit shows up. and for USB specific units like my Casio LK which has its own driver show up as well. 

[Base 57]

I have an iConnectivity Mio XL. 10 USB midi ports, 8 DIN ports and connects via network hub so all of those connections can be shared by multiple computers. 

[user 905133]

17 hours ago, Michael Forer said:

I have 3 USB-MIDI I/O cables connected to my Windows machine, via a USB hub, and they are connected to 3 different MIDI devices. 1-keyboard, 2 drum machines. They appear in Windows as "USB MIDI Interface"  in Windows, but they seem to be conflicting in Cakewalk. [emphasis added]

4 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

If those are what I think they are, then that's probably the problem right there. How is Windows supposed to distinguish between generic devices and keep track of which is which?  [emphasis added]

I agree with Byron Dickens and others who mention various multi-port MIDI interfaces. It sounds like you are using 1 x 1 interface cables.

Even with multiple 2 x 2 interfaces of the same model (E-Mu), Windows could only handle two at a time reliably.  Three was iffy.  Four was definitely problematic.

I picked up some older iConnect MIDI multiple port interfaces (iConnectMIDI2 and iConnectMIDI4+) and when used with the iConnectivity configuration software, Windows is much happier with multiple MIDI ports. Not specifically recommending these; just using them as an example of the benefit of avoiding multiple 1 x 1 MIDI interface cables, especially generic ones.

Edited February 8, 2023 by User 905133
fixed typo

[msmcleod]

I've personally gone through a range of USB MIDI interfaces that have failed to perform to expectations.

By far the worst performers were USB MIDI cables.

There are two issues with these cables:

1.  USB runs at 480Mbps , where as MIDI runs at 31.250Kbs.  This means data being sent out needs to be stored in a buffer, so that it can be sent out at a slower speed. The issue is that the buffer in these cables is tiny (in the order of a few 100 bytes), so it doesn't take long for that buffer to be full, and data to be lost.  This leads to stuck / lost notes, pitch bend / modulation being jumpy, and sysex basically not working at all.    A good analogy is a bucket with small tap in it - you're drinking from the small tap, but at the same time it's being filled from a waterfall.  The bigger the bucket, the less water overflows.... these MIDI cables have a very small bucket.

2. You can't really use more than one of them.  Each of the cables is seen as a generic "USB Compliant MIDI Device" making it impossible to tell each one apart - and because of the primitive way Windows deals with both MIDI and USB, depending on which port fires up first, they can swap port numbers without reason.  Friendly names in Cakewalk won't help you here, because Windows swaps the devices around.

The MIDISport 8x8 and 2x2 used to be my interfaces of choice, but their drivers have not been updated for years and now prove unreliable in Windows 10.

The only interface I can rely on nowadays is my Miditech MidiFace 8x8  (they also do a 4x4).  This is a USB 3 class compliant device.  I have 3 control surfaces and several controller keyboards running off one without any issues whatsoever.

 

[rfssongs]

If I understand your issue here, using a MOTU 5in/5out midi interface I have had none of these problems. If all of your devices have the 5 pin midi port connections then you could use that and all of your names would remain constant. The devices do not even have to be on when you boot cakewalk. They will always be on the port number you have connected the device to. You can change each port name to the name of your device & cakewalk will always get it right.

(So looking back now I guess I am agreeing with some of the answers above)

[Michael Forer]

Thank you all for your advise here. I suspected these might be the problem, but wasn't sure if it was a windows/usb issue, or a cable issue. Looks like there will be a new interface in my future!