DAW Users Hall of Shame

[Grem]

1 hour ago, Tony Carpenter said:

I have a valid excuse 60 moves in 35 years 8 times around the world to 4 different countries/states in those said countries. I'm sticking to that excuse, for now :).

That a valid reason.

 

52 minutes ago, craigb said:

Damn!  Running from the law?  ?

LOL!! That was a good one!

[Tony Carpenter]

22 hours ago, craigb said:

Damn!  Running from the law?  ?

No running around after upwardly mobile IT goddess wife actually lol. 

[lawajava]

I bought a Positive Grid Spark amp and had it sitting on my studio area right in front of me for two years without ever turning it on.

I had a reason. When I opened it from the box I saw that in their hurry to produce it the assembly guy had glued on the logo upside down.  It pissed me off.

So I let it stare at me for two years - silent.

I spoke with a guitarist who had one recently. He raved and raved about it. I went on YouTube and saw a clip where a guy showed how to put on custom face plates / grills.  I realized the assembly guy had put the grill on upside down.  I figured out how to put it in properly.

I turned it on. It sounds very nice. And is very handy right there at my fingertips.

[Grem]

2 hours ago, lawajava said:

It sounds very nice.

Yes they do!! 

[Starship Krupa]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:35 PM, kitekrazy said:

I spend more time on my outdated Intel 4790, 3.6 ghz system then my i9 system @ 4.9ghz.

Getting your DAW on with less-than-cutting edge hardware is the opposite of shame. Until 6 months ago I was pretty happy with my i7-3770. Then I found too good a deal to pass up on Craigs List and I'm running an i7-6700. Your 4790 is quite capable of doing anything you're likely to ask of it, and sometimes sitting down at my older system feels like putting on a nice pair of perfectly worn-in shoes. Comfortable, familiar. I know where everything is, before I built a new computer and started keeping things tidier.

Maybe it's the punk rock thing: it's cool to make music on banged up no-name instruments that "serious" musicians would shun. ?

[craigb]

Ya! ?

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Getting your DAW on with less-than-cutting edge hardware is the opposite of shame. Until 6 months ago I was pretty happy with my i7-3770. Then I found too good a deal to pass up on Craigs List and I'm running an i7-6700. Your 4790 is quite capable of doing anything you're likely to ask of it, and sometimes sitting down at my older system feels like putting on a nice pair of perfectly worn-in shoes. Comfortable, familiar. I know where everything is, before I built a new computer and started keeping things tidier.

Maybe it's the punk rock thing: it's cool to make music on banged up no-name instruments that "serious" musicians would shun. ?

Not too long ago I took  I took my retired PC parts to the electronics recycling    Like you are suppose to dump stuff there right?  Well I found a motherboard that had one of those massive dual fan CPU coolers.   I had to take the whole thing.  I had my hopes that the CPU in it was a 4790k.  It wasn't anything special but I do have this massive heatsink that I'm sure would probably work on new systems.   I'll have to post a picture of it sometime.

Edited January 20, 2023 by kitekrazy

[kennywtelejazz]

I had to take a good hard look  at where I was heading DAW wise after Gibson dropped SONAR .

Panic had set in and I feared I may never ever find a suitable DAW I liked half as much as I had liked SONAR .

I started buying up everything I could find too fill the ever approaching emptyness I was now starting to feel  in my creative musical heart.

I was at my wits end ...Where do I start ? ......

Then I came up with a foolproof plan .

If CC Larry , Bapu or Kitekrazy recomended it  I went for it. When Kitekrazy disliked it , couldn't stand the deal  , or hated it .....I bought 2 .....?

By chance I came upon a Music Radar Best DAW list ...The Top 20 ...It turns out that I had 14 of the top 20 DAW's in the article  ....both PC & Mac...

For the record I was OK with the idea that I had become a Jack of all DAW's and a master of none .

I had paid for them .I knew I would sort this dillema out eventualy.

But deep down in my gut , something was gnawing away at the very core of my insides ....

It took me a few months to realize it. I had spent all my money on musical equipment and I had left no money in my budget for the simple pleasures of life ....

It was apparent to me that I had to come find peace with my guilt Yet I would still come here and while here I felt like a total fraud and hypocrite ...

I had loved coming here and talking about Guitars , Music Production , Becan and scantly clad bikini clad women yet the simple sad truth of the matter was I hadn't had a strip of Becan in over 2 years .

My DAW jones had taken away my ability to afford Becan ...While trying to hide my shame I would go out and buy a Dollar Store bag of Pork Rinds and tell my self I was doing the best I can ...

Who was I fooling ? myself surley ...

Having hit a bottom with a trap door , I  put the brakes on all my DAW spending .....

Now I use the former DAW money to buy only the things that enhance and nurture my soul .

The smell of fresh cooked Becan can certainly get my creative juices flowing . Can I get and Amen ?

Oh Yeah ! Life is Good  ! I'm back ?

Kenny

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by kennywtelejazz

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Not too long ago I took  I took my retired PC parts to the electronics recycling    Like you are suppose to dump stuff there right?  Well I found a motherboard that had one of those massive dual fan CPU coolers.   I had to take the whole thing.  I had my hopes that the CPU in it was a 4790k.  It wasn't anything special but I do have this massive heatsink that I'm sure would probably work on new systems.   I'll have to post a picture of it sometime.

Nice. Yeah, let's see it. I'd love to have access to a trove of retired PC components.

Parts that IMO should never be tossed are case, power supply, fans, and CPU cooler (within a certain range of sockets). Right now, my DAW system is using a hand-me-down case, which also has fans in it from a Pentium D-based HP full-tower that I found on the curb about 10 years ago, then retired and mostly stripped about 6 years ago. The HP carcass had been sitting outside for the past half dozen years waiting to be taken to a metal scrapper. I needed a fan for a new build last week and voila, it still had a pair of pretty nice (Delta) ones. As long as they have at least 3 wire connectors, a modern motherboard can control their speed. The HP's 450W power supply is currently still running in a system I gave to a friend.

Sometimes "office boxes" have nice fans in them, as quiet can be a selling point for office PC's. They get even quieter once you set up cooling profiles with your fancy motherboard and slow the speeds down. They're also rugged, because nobody wants their office computer's fan to start making funny noises.

Since cases are pretty standardized, there's no reason to dump them until they are well and truly done for. I just spent $50 on a new one, and I'm sure that there are multiple retired possible case donor PC's sitting in garages within a block radius of me.

The need for 500+W power supplies is exaggerated these days. CPU's and graphics cards are being built to use less power than they were 10 years ago, and if you're not gaming and just using your processor's on-board graphics, 350W is probably more than enough. My main rig has a passively cooled GT 1030 in it, which is very light on power consumption.

[Xoo]

6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The need for 500+W power supplies is exaggerated these days. CPU's and graphics cards are being built to use less power than they were 10 years ago, and if you're not gaming and just using your processor's on-board graphics, 350W is probably more than enough. My main rig has a passively cooled GT 1030 in it, which is very light on power consumption.

Yes but...a beefier power supply can run cooler and quieter.  I've got a low power system in the grand scheme of things, but a fanless 600+W PSU.  I went for that much wattage not because I need it, but because it is silent and very efficient, hence cheaper to run in the long, er, run.

[hockeyjx]

1 hour ago, Kevin Perry said:

Yes but...a beefier power supply can run cooler and quieter.  I've got a low power system in the grand scheme of things, but a fanless 600+W PSU.  I went for that much wattage not because I need it, but because it is silent and very efficient, hence cheaper to run in the long, er, run.

EXACTLY.

[kitekrazy]

12 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Nice. Yeah, let's see it. I'd love to have access to a trove of retired PC components.

Parts that IMO should never be tossed are case, power supply, fans, and CPU cooler (within a certain range of sockets). Right now, my DAW system is using a hand-me-down case, which also has fans in it from a Pentium D-based HP full-tower that I found on the curb about 10 years ago, then retired and mostly stripped about 6 years ago. The HP carcass had been sitting outside for the past half dozen years waiting to be taken to a metal scrapper. I needed a fan for a new build last week and voila, it still had a pair of pretty nice (Delta) ones. As long as they have at least 3 wire connectors, a modern motherboard can control their speed. The HP's 450W power supply is currently still running in a system I gave to a friend.

Sometimes "office boxes" have nice fans in them, as quiet can be a selling point for office PC's. They get even quieter once you set up cooling profiles with your fancy motherboard and slow the speeds down. They're also rugged, because nobody wants their office computer's fan to start making funny noises.

Since cases are pretty standardized, there's no reason to dump them until they are well and truly done for. I just spent $50 on a new one, and I'm sure that there are multiple retired possible case donor PC's sitting in garages within a block radius of me.

The need for 500+W power supplies is exaggerated these days. CPU's and graphics cards are being built to use less power than they were 10 years ago, and if you're not gaming and just using your processor's on-board graphics, 350W is probably more than enough. My main rig has a passively cooled GT 1030 in it, which is very light on power consumption.

I always keep these parts.  They are handy for trouble shooting hardware.  The one system parts I have yet to trash is my Intel Q6600 system.  It was probably the most stable system I've had.    

[Starship Krupa]

5 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

Yes but...a beefier power supply can run cooler and quieter.  I've got a low power system in the grand scheme of things, but a fanless 600+W PSU.  I went for that much wattage not because I need it, but because it is silent and very efficient

Oh, hey, not disputing that headroom is good when it comes to PSU's. My daily driver has a CorsairCX650 that I snagged new in box on Craig's List. Total top of the line.

If you're going to order an aftermarket PSU, there's no reason to go with anything under 500W. I merely wanted to point out that it's not mandatory. I had a pulled HP 400W supply that I built into a Q6600 system for a friend. Over the years I'd replaced its fan with a Noctua, and it's pretty quiet.

[Starship Krupa]

2 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I always keep these parts.  They are handy for trouble shooting hardware.

Also if you happen to acquire enough spares, you can build a system for a friend in need, which is what I did. A Gateway system that was a friend's daughter's middle school computer (she has since graduated from college!). I replaced its Core 2 Duo with a Q6600 and put an SSD in it and it was my main DAW system for a few years, then my shop computer until just last year. It originally had a preternaturally fast 500G WD Blue spinner. It now has an nVidia Quadro and a pulled HP 400W PSU that I dropped a Noctua fan into.

I gave it to a computerless friend. Runs Cakewalk just fine as long as you don't load it up with too many fancy plug-ins, which he doesn't. Yeah, Cakewalk is based on ancient code, but that means that that code was made to run well on Pentium D's and the like. Throw it at a Core 2 Quad system with 8G of RAM and it's quite happy. I installed it on an old Core 2 Duo laptop that I fixed up for another friend, and whaddaya know: if you stick to lighter plug-ins like the stock plug-ins and ProChannel, it parties like it's 2009.

[kitekrazy]

16 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Oh, hey, not disputing that headroom is good when it comes to PSU's. My daily driver has a CorsairCX650 that I snagged new in box on Craig's List. Total top of the line.

If you're going to order an aftermarket PSU, there's no reason to go with anything under 500W. I merely wanted to point out that it's not mandatory. I had a pulled HP 400W supply that I built into a Q6600 system for a friend. Over the years I'd replaced its fan with a Noctua, and it's pretty quiet.

Unfortunately CPUs are getting up there in wattage.   I'm still a fan of those AMD 65 watt CPUs.     

[InstrEd]

36 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Unfortunately CPUs are getting up there in wattage.   I'm still a fan of those AMD 65 watt CPUs.     

The new AM5 chips will have some nice 65W chips soon to choose from. Plus they seem to overclock to decent amount with still not going crazy on wattage.

[Magic Russ]

I think most DAWs have had Hall of Shame moments

 

Logic for abandoning its PC users.

Cakewalk for the way the add on components around the time of X2 made things less stable.

Ableton for looking ugly as anything.

Bitwig for offering WASAPI support for output but not input.  Also both of them for not being able to audition midi to a track.  Project 5 could do that and it's been out of development for 15 or 17 years already.

Cubase had people calling their parent company Steinbug, so I'm sure there's something there.

Frooty Loops offering lifetime upgrades and then changing the name of the product and everyone having to upgrade to the new version.

Mixcraft for bundling software from an infamous *****.

I guess that just leaves Reaper and Studio One as not having Hall of Shame moments.

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Magic Russ said:

Mixcraft for bundling software....

Ooh, do dish the dirt. I'm trying to figure out who that might be.

Mixcraft have more to answer for from still be bundling 32-bit VST's in 2023, IMO.

[Magic Russ]

18 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Ooh, do dish the dirt. I'm trying to figure out who that might be.

Mixcraft have more to answer for from still be bundling 32-bit VST's in 2023, IMO.

Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like Mixcraft are distributing the Kjaerhus Audio Classic Series effects.   If you know, enough said, if not google what happened to that company.

[Starship Krupa]

30 minutes ago, Magic Russ said:

Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like Mixcraft are distributing the Kjaerhus Audio Classic Series effects.   If you know, enough said, if not google what happened to that company.

Whoa. Nastiness indeed. Good heavens. Doesn't get much worse than that.

I had no idea about this. They came with the first version of Mixcraft I got and I didn't care for them (I'm a "mix with your ears and eyes" person and their GUI's were too rudimentary). Also my foray into the use of Mixcraft coincided with a wave of excellent loss-leader and other freeware plug-ins (MEqualizer, MCompressor, MPhaser, MFlanger, MComb, and OrilRiver beat the utter kiddy-fiddling snot out of that collection), which I migrated to.

What Acoustica/Mixcraft are now doing with their installer is allowing optional installation of "legacy" bundled plug-ins so that longtime users can still open old projects without getting "missing plug-in" errors. The default is to not install them. They're listed on the website as "Classic," not by the developer name. Seems like they had to compromise between completely distancing themselves and making things difficult for their user base. It's not as if the "fiddler in the clink" makes any money from it.

Acoustica are unfortunately not shy about still bundling 32-bit plug-ins (despite my bug reports informing them when 64-bit versions became available ?), so they probably didn't drop them for their 32-bithood. Maybe they dropped them because they're simply not as good as later freeware products (and their current bundle, which is a nice collection by ToneBoosters).

Anyway, this is the DAW Users Hall of Shame rather than the DAW Manufacturers Hall of Shame. Still, thanks for pointing me in the direction of the dirt. Icky as it is, it's good to be informed.

On the topic of DAW Users Hall of Shame, I probably qualify for my follies with REAPER. I first tried it about a decade ago and have every so often since and always come to the same conclusion: too much technology standing between me and the creation of music. The first few tries, it took me the better part of 2 hours just to get a track armed for recording (compared to a minute or two with Mixcraft and Cakewalk). This was back when the manual was user-written LINUX-style, with the basics (like, uh, how to start the damn thing recording audio or MIDI) being left out. Before the REAPER brigade chimes in, yes, this has been well-remedied in the intervening years, but the menus have gotten even bigger and more daunting. REAPER is just too powerful for little ol' me, I guess. So I'm either a dunderhead for having such a hard time with it or a dunderhead for continuing to try it even after my initial unfortunate experiences (trying the same thing expecting different results, etc.). It sounds like something I'd like, endlessly customizable, light on resources, stable....but it just reminds me of trying to use GIMP after learning on Photoshop.

Also, despite my hunger for a platform for live improvisation of electronic music, I repeatedly come up blank when trying to use Ableton Live. Magazine tutorials, etc. No dice. I guess I still think of songs too much in linear form. It looks like so much fun, and so many people I admire get killer results with it. Not me, at least so far. WAAAHHH, I wanna use Ableton!