Berggren Beats Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Hello. I am not able to nudge an audio clip that is on a freeze/bounced track. I can move it by clicking and dragging with the mouse, why can't I nudge it? Thank you! Edited January 13, 2023 by Berggren Beats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Frozen clips can be moved about using the mouse primarily to move/copy the audio to a different track. It's important to note that moving the frozen clip has no effect on the unfrozen clip in the background. So any edits you do will be lost when you unfreeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) On 1/13/2023 at 1:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: why can't I nudge it? Perhaps it is Un-Nudgable... If your clip starts at Time 0 and you are trying to nudge it left it will not move... The clip has to have room to move left and can not start at the very beginning of the track... Make sure you have the clip that you are trying to nudge and the track on which the clip is located selected... If the clip is selected and not the track your clip will not move... Edited January 16, 2023 by SirWillyDS12 Removed "Now" from "Now Time 0" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 28 minutes ago, SirWillyDS12 said: Perhaps it is Un-Nudgable... I don't think so: On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: I can move it by clicking and dragging with the mouse There is obviously something about shortcuts. On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: why can't I nudge it? Just turn on Numlock. It will nudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, murat k. said: I don't think so: If your clip starts at Time Zero (1:01:000) and you are trying to nudge it left it will not move... It is Un-Nudgable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 41 minutes ago, SirWillyDS12 said: If your clip starts at Time Zero (1:01:000) and you are trying to nudge it left it will not move... It is Un-Nudgable... I also don't think that no one is trying to move a clip to a nonexisting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 You just never know... I start all my projects at measure two... After recording and during the mixing stage I will Nudge the start times of my tracks left if they are going to outboard gear that will be returning to Cakewalk to adjust for Latency... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 minute ago, SirWillyDS12 said: You just never know... I start all my projects at measure two... After recording and during the mixing stage I will Nudge the start times of my tracks left if they are going to outboard gear that will be returning to Cakewalk to adjust for Latency... And this is crazy when you're trying to nudge clips to a position before the starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 26 minutes ago, murat k. said: And this is crazy when you're trying to nudge clips to a position before the starting point. No, really it's not... I use three different Asio Devices... I use DS WASAPI ASIO Router Mixer and loop back both my Yamaha Motif XF6 Asio (Up to 16 tracks Asio...) and my Roland Fantom 7 (Up to 32 tracks Asio...) to my Motu 828es... My 828es is interfaced with Cakewalk and I can send 128 tracks by Thunder Bolt to Cakewalk... I am not limited to the Analog outputs from my keyboards and all tracks are digital... To do so I have to adjust for Latency for the loop back (75 ms @ 1024 buffer setting) by nudging the midi tracks sent out 75ms before the Start... It work beautifully... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 24 minutes ago, SirWillyDS12 said: No, really it's not... I use three different Asio Devices... I use DS WASAPI ASIO Router Mixer and loop back both my Yamaha Motif XF6 Asio (Up to 16 tracks Asio...) and my Roland Fantom 7 (Up to 32 tracks Asio...) to my Motu 828es... My 828es is interfaced with Cakewalk and I can send 128 tracks by Thunder Bolt to Cakewalk... I am not limited to the Analog outputs from my keyboards and all tracks are digital... To do so I have to adjust for Latency for the loop back (75 ms @ 1024 buffer setting) by nudging the midi tracks sent out 75ms before the Start... It work beautifully... Thanks for the sharing of your workflow. It seems that you're not trying to move the clips from before the zero point. This would be crazy. But also you gave an advice not to do that. So I am not sure that if you didn't do. The thing is, people are giving advices to the people without carefully reading their topics. In the OP it says On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: I can move it by clicking and dragging with the mouse So it has nothing about misdirection. You also didn't get what I was saying. No problem. I think you get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 So the lesson learned from this topic: "The Concept is everything." 12 hours ago, murat k. said: I don't think so: On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: I can move it by clicking and dragging with the mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) I'm not seeing a problem nudging frozen audio clips earlier when MIDI from which they were generated starts at 2:01. Possibly you're are actually selecting a time range all the way back to 1:01 by selecting the track rather than just the clip...? But I'm curious why such a high buffer, and why so much latency at that buffer size (1024 samples is only 21.3ms at 48kHz). Was 75ms calculated or measured? Moreover I'm curious why latency has any bearing on freezing virtual instruments which is an offline process not subject to real-time latency. Edited January 15, 2023 by David Baay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, David Baay said: I'm not seeing a problem nudging frozen audio clips earlier when MIDI from which they were generated starts at 2:01. Possibly you're are actually selecting a time range all the way back to 1:01 by selecting the track rather than just the clip...? But I'm curious why such a high buffer, and why so much latency at that buffer size (1024 samples is only 21.3ms at 48kHz). Was 75ms calculated or measured? Moreover I'm curious why latency has any bearing on freezing virtual instruments which is an offline process not subject to real-time latency. There is no issue with nudging. He is just talking about you can't nudge a clip to a position below the zero point which nobody tries except him I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, murat k. said: There is no issue with nudging. He is just talking about you can't nudge a clip to a position below the zero point which nobody tries except him I guess. I mis-read SirWillyDS12's comments, including "I start all my projects at measure two" as being from the OP. The OP hasn't really made clear where his clips start or which direction he's trying to nudge. Edited January 15, 2023 by David Baay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, David Baay said: I mis-read SirWillyDS12's comments, including "I start all my projects at measure two" as being from the OP. The OP hasn't really made clear where his clips start or which direction he's trying to nudge. Just a little logic can help to get it: On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, Berggren Beats said: I can move it by clicking and dragging with the mouse I also told the solution: 19 hours ago, murat k. said: Just turn on Numlock. It will nudge. Just a little more careful reading , that's all we need in this forum. Edited January 15, 2023 by murat k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggren Beats Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Thanks everyone for your replies, this community seems nice and helpful As someone pointed out, I needed to have the track selected as well as the freezed clip in order to nudge it. When I select a normal non-freezed clip, the track automatically gets selected. This seems not to be the case with a freezed clip. I also noticed if I make copies of the freezed clip and place them later in the timeline, I can only nudge these one time and then the track gets deselected. So in order to nudge these clips more than once I have to select clip, select track, nudge.. select clip, select track, nudge.. and so on. This isn't really a huge problem for me but I'm curious to why I have to take all these extra steps to nudge freezed tracks and, in this particular scenario, why they just can't behave like non-freezed clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Berggren Beats said: Thanks everyone for your replies, this community seems nice and helpful As someone pointed out, I needed to have the track selected as well as the freezed clip in order to nudge it. When I select a normal non-freezed clip, the track automatically gets selected. This seems not to be the case with a freezed clip. I also noticed if I make copies of the freezed clip and place them later in the timeline, I can only nudge these one time and then the track gets deselected. So in order to nudge these clips more than once I have to select clip, select track, nudge.. select clip, select track, nudge.. and so on. This isn't really a huge problem for me but I'm curious to why I have to take all these extra steps to nudge freezed tracks and, in this particular scenario, why they just can't behave like non-freezed clips? This issue happens with only Instrument Tracks. There is no nudging issues with Freezed Audios. So a little workaround seems fixing this issue. Right Click on the Instrument Track then select "Split Instrument Track" before the Freeze, then "Make Instrument Track" by selecting splitted Audio and MIDI, it will nugde. But don't try to nudge below the zero point, because On 1/15/2023 at 2:41 AM, SirWillyDS12 said: It is Un-Nudgable... Sorry Willy I can't help myself ? Edited January 16, 2023 by murat k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 It's the new frozen track, the Un-Nudgable... ?... So I believe I know what is happening here... You are clicking on the new Audio clip in the track view and that doesn't select the track, can't Nudge... The underlying "midi track" in the instrument track which is now frozen is the original track and is not selected when you click on the new audio clip... If you open up the Piano Roll View with the Track View also visible you will see it... When the underlying original midi clip is selected (as long as the entire track is not selected...) you can Nudge the poor little "sucker" all over the place, Numlock and all and it doesn't "un-select"... Both the original midi and the new audio both move... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWillyDS12 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 @David Baay The latency is round trip as reported to Cakewalk by my Motu 828es... I use the maximum buffer size 1024 with a safety offset buffer of 256 at 48kHz while mixing... The input latency is 26.7 ms. the output 48 ms and round trip 74.7 ms... I use this "setup" only when mixing... I use the Asio drivers from two of my keyboards input into DS WASAPI ASIO Router Mixer which is then routed back to my 828es... From the 828es the tracks are routed into Cakewalk... I input echo all my keyboards (live inputs) through Cakewalk and mix with recorded audio and soft synths tracks.. All my key tracks are recorded to midi tracks and while recording I direct monitor through the 828es... When recording I use a buffer size of 64, safety of 16 with 1.7 ms input latency... When I work on mixing a song after recording I pre- delay my midi tracks to make up for the round trip latency of my Motu 828es to align the input echoed live inputs with the audio and or soft synth tracks in Cakewalk... This setup gives me great flexibility, I can use VST effects on any of my keyboard tracks or even a mix of tracks... I can edit the "voice" of any of my key programs at any time or even select a different voice and not have to re-record "audio"... I render all of my mixes in real time recorded from the Master Output as all my keyboards midi tracks are playing in real time... I can have up to 64 live keyboard inputs at one time... Latency is not an issue at all by offsetting my tracks so I use the maximum buffer size for CPU conservation... For the most part I try to use zero latency plugins on the "live inputs"... I also have four hardware effects processors that are digitally interfaced with my 828es that I use as FX sends from Cakewalk, also rendered in real time with the "Mix" if I use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murat k. Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 56 minutes ago, SirWillyDS12 said: It's the new frozen track, the Un-Nudgable... ?... So I believe I know what is happening here... You are clicking on the new Audio clip in the track view and that doesn't select the track, can't Nudge... The underlying "midi track" in the instrument track which is now frozen is the original track and is not selected when you click on the new audio clip... If you open up the Piano Roll View with the Track View also visible you will see it... When the underlying original midi clip is selected (as long as the entire track is not selected...) you can Nudge the poor little "sucker" all over the place, Numlock and all and it doesn't "un-select"... Both the original midi and the new audio both move... Selecting all MIDI in the PRV with the Freezed Audio in the Track View can also work to nudge freezed Instrument Track. Great observation Willy. But the Numlock thing still exist. Because the default shortcuts use number keys for Nudge, when the Numlock is off these keys turns to alternatives and these keys won't work for nudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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