It Might Be Time To Rethink Our Audio Software Purchasing (not a deal but related to pricing)

[Yan Filiatrault]

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/it-might-be-time-to-rethink-our-audio-software-purchasing?utm_source=convertkit&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=It+Might+Be+Time+To+Rethink+Our+Audio+Software+Purchasing - 9819562

Edited January 12, 2023 by Yan Filiatrault

[ralfrobert]

Thanks for the nice article. Good find. 

[marcL]

It is a nice article. On the other hand it is very partial, taking sides with the developers only!

I am only working on Windows. I have plugins that are more than 10 years old and they still run without trouble (on W7/W10)! So why should I pay for Apple development? I agree that in such cases the customers (Apple lovers) should pay for it, but the problem is that usual bug fixes (very few) and the Apple compatibility is mixed.

Concerning software there are other things to think about. If someone creates a product with obvious problems, then why should the customer pay for correction? Also the automotive industry had to do free upgrades if they tampered something.

[Yan Filiatrault]

Just now, marled said:

It is a nice article. On the other hand it is very partial, taking sides with the developers only!

I am only working on Windows. I have plugins that are more than 10 years old and they still run without trouble (on W7/W10)! So why should I pay for Apple development? I agree that in such cases the customers (Apple lovers) should pay for it, but the problem is that usual bug fixes (very few) and the Apple compatibility is mixed.

Concerning software there are other things to think about. If someone creates a product with obvious problems, then why should the customer pay for correction? Also the automotive industry had to do free upgrades if they tampered something.

That’s why the author mentioned it’s open for discussion.

[paulo]

How about the option of paying a one-time fee over and above the price of the software for lifetime updates...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... luckily, I never took my coat off. 

I'll see myself out.

[Tim Smith]

Life goes on and people don't generally change based on a principle. They change of necessity, if it somehow improves them or their life or for something better.

I have a lot of software. It all mostly works. I like new things, so I might buy something else additional or upgrade if I like a product improvement. If I NEED an update to keep my software working correctly, then that's what I'll do. 

I wasn't thinking of support for developers when I bought my software, not that I don't wish them all the best and appreciate what they do. 

[telecode 101]

Nothing new here. Software and applications  last as long as you want it to last. If you are a user that keeps updating to the newest and greatest hardware, then you need to budget for new software. (I am looking at you M1 apple users) if you are a user that just uses things that work, then you will get as much life out of your investment and time as you can squeeze out of it. 

 

I am an IT guy.  I work for some pretty odd projects. There are researchers out there that have research project they built 20+ years ago that are still running on old SunOS and IRIX systems. We support it as long as they are paying. As long as it works, they don't give a crap and keep using it. None of this fancy pants R and ML plans to update nothing. Their old 20 year old code is still pulling in research grants  they need to keep their project running.

Subscription models are great for people that want or need the latest and greatest. Now whether they use those latest and greatest features is questionable. At my work we had to move users to the Adobe subscription models. It's a total rip off. I still use my old copy of Acrobat and Fireworks and get 100% of my job done with it that it is required for. But I  have to keep regenerating invoices and purchases for the users every year for Adobe software that they are clueless about more than 90% of the features are or that they even exist. 

✌️

Edited January 12, 2023 by telecode 101

[Walter Cruz]

Well, there's a lot of takes on this.

On one side, I'm not against charging for updates. I'm not even against WUP, it's a model that somehow makes sense. But the great problem is the price. Doesn't make a lot of sense paying expensive for something that it's more a framework upgrade - something that it's easily fixed and doesn't add nothing new to the plugins. I'm more ok on paying to something that add new features to a plugin - and making a plugin work well with current screen resolutions is not a feature to me.....

And remember that WUP includes phone support. I guess that 99% of us never used this, right? Honestly, I think that a very low WUP to just keep the plugins updated (29.00 a year ?), without the phone support included, would work well for Waves and the customers. And maybe a expensive support plan with phone support, to the people that really care about this.

On the other side, we have companies like U-He that offer for free some upgrades that could be a really paid upgrade - new features and everything else, and it seems to work well for everyone involved.

[smallstonefan]

I run a decent sized software company and I can tell you this whole thing is very complicated. I moved our company to subscription a number of years ago. It took years to accomplish, was very challenging, and I nearly ran out of cash. Let me tell you a $35,000 a month cash burn is NO FUN. We provide a mission-critical applications for business so it makes sense for our customers to be on subscription and to get constant updates - be that feature innovations or bug fixes. The subscription also includes access to our academy, training staff, and US-based 800 customer support. We work very hard to provide constant value and innovation, and not just sit on the product and take in the revenue.

I struggle a bit with a subscription model that is "access only" - in other words, you are just paying to use the product and the product is never updated (ie Plugin Alliance for the most part). Over time, this is a very expensive proposition for the end user. I actually like WUP - because the products keep working if I don't WUP and I can choose to WUP when I see the value in it and I take comfort in the fact WUP is profitable for Waves and therefore they will continue to keep their products functioning through future tech changes. That said, if I ran a professional studio I would highly consider subscription models and just consider them as part of the cost of doing business - like an electric bill.

I will also add that if you run a software company, subscription is THE model to shoot for. It creates a very consistent cash flow and when you go to sell your business it's usually valued on a multiple of the subscription revenue as opposed to a multiple of the EBITA (a truly unique situation for software companies); subscription is here to stay.

[telecode 101]

58 minutes ago, Walter Cruz said:

Well, there's a lot of takes on this.

On one side, I'm not against charging for updates. I'm not even against WUP, it's a model that somehow makes sense. But the great problem is the price. Doesn't make a lot of sense paying expensive for something that it's more a framework upgrade - something that it's easily fixed and doesn't add nothing new to the plugins. I'm more ok on paying to something that add new features to a plugin - and making a plugin work well with current screen resolutions is not a feature to me.....

And remember that WUP includes phone support. I guess that 99% of us never used this, right? Honestly, I think that a very low WUP to just keep the plugins updated (29.00 a year ?), without the phone support included, would work well for Waves and the customers. And maybe a expensive support plan with phone support, to the people that really care about this.

On the other side, we have companies like U-He that offer for free some upgrades that could be a really paid upgrade - new features and everything else, and it seems to work well for everyone involved.

I feel security updates should be free.  Features and new versions is okay to change. What I am iffy about with these companies is are they releasing perhaps buggy software and patching up bugs in updates.  Things like memory and CPU optimization and so on. Who is to say memory leaks are a security patch or a bug update? That one I am not sure about. I guess it's no different than Microsoft releasing patches for Excel over a 10 year period. But these small companies don't have the same war chest as Microsoft et la.

Edited January 12, 2023 by telecode 101

[John1984]

56 minutes ago, smallstonefan said:

I actually like WUP - because the products keep working if I don't WUP and I can choose to WUP when I see the value in it and I take comfort in the fact WUP is profitable for Waves and therefore they will continue to keep their products functioning through future tech changes. 

I agree with you about Waves WUP. Another benefit of the plan is this:

"With your Waves Update Plan, you receive any plugins added to the bundles you own, at no additional cost."

I am viewing my upgrade cost on a large bundle that is a couple of versions behind and, while it is not insignificant, it does add 24 plugins I didn't get when I initially bought the bundle. Waves gets another pile of cash to continue business and I get additional value. For me I believe that's a fair trade.

I think the article makes good and reasonable points. Part of the friction over this topic is, I believe, rooted in confusing "price" with "value."

[Bapu]

I am a Waves WUP supporter, and I am on several subscriptions (Slate, Kilohearts, Kush & McDSP). I'm also a Plugged In Member with Harrison.

I have no beef with any of these business models. 

[Reid Rosefelt]

One aspect of free updates is that it renews attention to a piece of software.   So when there is a free update to Scaler, people on this site talk about how much they love Scaler. And this might lead some people who don't have Scaler to buy it. 

Marketing is an expense.  How do you get people to find out about your product?  There is a lot of attention when something first comes out, but then it drops off.  So companies use freebies, and special sales to get attention. 

But I am a believer in supporting developers in any way we can. 

 

[RSMcGuitar]

5 hours ago, paulo said:

How about the option of paying a one-time fee over and above the price of the software for lifetime updates...

Good idea! You could name it after some sort of rare metal or something...

[RSMcGuitar]

2 hours ago, JohnL said:

"With your Waves Update Plan, you receive any plugins added to the bundles you own, at no additional cost."

I was excited about that proposition when I got the Horizon Bundle. Then they started only adding stuff to Mercury and not other bundles.

 

It was pretty disappointing.

[Bapu]

28 minutes ago, RSMcGuitar said:

Good idea! You could name it after some sort of rare metal or something...

Ozmium?

[Brian Walton]

Just imagine how the market would shift if the cost of the related upkeep/development was placed on the end user's need.

i.e. if you are a MAC user - your price is "x" becuase that is where the development cost went.

if you are a Windows users your price is "y" becuase we didn't need to update it in the last 10 years.

Unless developers are charging next to nothing for the plugin - I think the consumer has some right to expect it to maintain compatiblity for many years.  Outside of MACs, the updates required are not all that significant.  We shoudn't forget these are not tangible goods with the costs associated with physical manufacturing and distribution.  With very few exceptions they also have practically no re-sale value a couple years after they hit the market.  

If you have a plugin that sees significant feature additions (only a few come to mind) then price the initial release and upgrades accordingly.  Things like WUP where you are buying the entire plugin again for the cost of service/maintenance is pretty absurd.  

[Bapu]

15 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Things like WUP where you are buying the entire plugin again for the cost of service/maintenance is pretty absurd.  

Absolutely true if you own a few $29 pieces from Waves.

I own Mercury, Abbey Road and Studio Classics and the Instruments bundle. ~$240 per year (from Every Plugin) is a very reasonable price for me to keep up to date, get free new plugins, and in the case of Abbey Road, get new releases at great loyalty release prices.

[craigb]

59 minutes ago, RSMcGuitar said:

Good idea! You could name it after some sort of rare metal or something...

 

31 minutes ago, Bapu said:

Ozmium?

Unobtanium? ?

[jude77]

1 hour ago, RSMcGuitar said:

Good idea! You could name it after some sort of rare metal or something...

LOL! You win this threads, hands down.