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Adding nodes to automation envelopes using smart tool does not respect Snap Settings

Elena Kolpakova

By Elena Kolpakova
in Cakewalk by BandLab

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Elena Kolpakova

Elena Kolpakova

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Posted (edited)

So, here I'm trying to add a node precisely at 17:01:000

As you can see,

  1. Aim Assist points exactly at that time.
  2. Snap Settings should work fine: "Snap To" + "Smart Grid" which at this point is 1/8 (480 ticks).

image.thumb.png.45d1152924c4f9d13f8925f48fc648b4.png

 

What did I expect - the new node to land at 17:01:000 precisely or +/- 480 ticks had I bin really inaccurate

What did really happen - I've got a node at 17:01:174

image.thumb.png.333d16c38bad4ff76246a3a4c34698bd.png

 

This has been annoying me for ages. Can't this be fixed for once? Just why, why doesn't it respect the Aim Assist? When the feature was introduced years ago, it worked so great, but then got broken and has since been such a drag in the daily workflow. Always right-click the node and fix the timing manually. Duh.

Edited by Helene Kolpakova
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Elena Kolpakova

Elena Kolpakova

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1 hour ago, tecknot said:

Hello Helene,

The Aim Assist position is not a landmark which you can snap to.  You must use the Now Time marker instead. 

Kind regards,

tecknot

You may be terminologically correct, but the issue is still a legit one. From the documentation (https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.29.html)

Quote

When Snap to Grid is enabled, the Aim Assist line follows the current Snap to Grid settings rather than the mouse pointer position.

So yes, with Snap enabled, Aim Assist line follows the snap settings, but so should the Smart Editing tool that is used to add nodes to the automation envelope. And that is broken, i.e. the Smart Editing tool ignores the Snap Settings when applied to automation envelopes.

That was the whole point of the Aim Assist as a feature - to give visual cues where your mouse actions will land on a timeline.

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Starship Krupa

Starship Krupa

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1 hour ago, tecknot said:

The Aim Assist position is not a landmark which you can snap to.  You must use the Now Time marker instead.

That's not applicable in this case.

The OP is clicking to add a node, and when doing so with snap enabled, clicking anywhere should respect the snap settings. They're not trying to use Aim Assist as a landmark, they're just pointing out that Aim Assist is respecting the snap settings whereas the resulting action is not. Now Time has nothing to do with it.

The bottom line problem for them is that adding automation nodes isn't respecting Snap to Grid, and I tried it and it's the same for me.

Although in the past I've never tried to get that precise with my automation, I'm curious about this, so I did a little documentation digging:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Tools.26.html

I'm having a hard time parsing that page; nothing that I tried from it seemed to work as specified....

From the local help file:

"Cakewalk lets you define a snap grid that makes it easier to arrange clips, select time ranges, and control envelope shape drawing."

That means automation, right?

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Elena Kolpakova

Elena Kolpakova

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Funnily enough that's exactly the settings I have myself but clearly it doesn't help

image.png.ecfff2518f3135c3bb70d8bb5bd8985b.png

If there's anything I can do to help debugging, let me know. I'm on Windows 11 atm but have had the same experience on all Windows 10 versions in the past too.

To avoid any project-specific data, I can reproduce as follows:

  1. Start CbB.
  2. Close the untitled project (that's based on the Normal template).
  3. Make sure preferences match the settings on the screenshot.
  4. Create a new project using Empty Project template.
  5. Enable Snap "To", Smart Grid, No Landmarks.
  6. Create an audio track.
  7. Expand the automation lanes for the track -> this should create the lane for the Track Volume envelope.
  8. Make sure Smart tool is selected and Aim Assist with line position readouts (Show Aim Assist Time) is enabled.
  9. Start adding nodes to the curve.
Edited by Helene Kolpakova
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msmcleod

msmcleod

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@Helene Kolpakova - I've just tried this on my laptop using the trackpad (before I was using my trackball), and I see what you're getting at.

The trick is to:
1. Left mouse button down to add the node... but don't release it
2. Move the mouse left or right very slightly so it snaps
3. Release the mouse button.

I must have been doing this for so long it's in muscle memory, and I wasn't consciously aware of it.

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Will.

Will.

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First and foremost: The title of this topic is misleading.

Secondly: Yeah. Can hardly call this an issue - perhaps for newcomers, yes. It's a known issue. I literally just thought it depends on your zoom perspective. How far, or close you're zoomed in/out. I don't know if it's the same with CbB though, but when aligning corners in CAD it is also not accurate within its grid snap. Perhaps they have a different reason for it | or| maybe I am missing a feature in there - who knows?  

Maybe this will help. 

I normally just do the Ctrl and drag to snap it "perfectly" to the grid - irrespective to what zoom percentage I am in. Easy-Peasy, and it works like a charm - every time.  

 

 

 

Edited by Will.
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Elena Kolpakova

Elena Kolpakova

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4 hours ago, Will. said:

First and foremost: The title of this topic is misleading.

Tried to fix that - hopefully this is clearer now

4 hours ago, Will. said:

Can hardly call this an issue - perhaps for newcomers, yes. It's a known issue.

Yeah, except I'm using Cakewalk since like 1997. I'm fully aware it's not a new bug, hence I'm not posting in the 2022.09 feedback thread. Just having automation heavy projects this year and grew tired of this bug. Not saying it's necessarily a problem for every one. Whether it's known to the devs - don't have access to their JIRA, so who knows.

But it's a pain when you need nodes at exact timings either if the related VST sounds drastically depends on it (key switches, or other switch-like synth properties) and/or when copy-pasting clips with automation.

Overall, there are some pain points when working with automation and controllers in CbB, so I believe reminding about them here might eventually get them fixed and make CbB a little better.

Have a nice day.

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Will.

Will.

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9 minutes ago, Helene Kolpakova said:

Not saying it's necessarily a problem for every one.

 

Never said it isnt an issue. I said you can hardly call it one as it is a small nuance one dont really find annoying. I have this habbit of double checking every insert i make. So to me, what you find an issue - is hardly one. Understand what I mean?

That doesnt mean it is not one. 

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  • 1 year later...
Thomas Happ

Thomas Happ

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Posted

It's been 2 years but I just want to say I have been doing it wrong for decades and this has improved my life.  Thanks.

On 10/17/2022 at 2:51 AM, msmcleod said:

@Helene Kolpakova - I've just tried this on my laptop using the trackpad (before I was using my trackball), and I see what you're getting at.

The trick is to:
1. Left mouse button down to add the node... but don't release it
2. Move the mouse left or right very slightly so it snaps
3. Release the mouse button.

I must have been doing this for so long it's in muscle memory, and I wasn't consciously aware of it.

 

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