Guitar strumming VSTs

[fret_man]

When I play rhythm on guitar I often embellish the chords with various hammer-ons and pull-offs. An easy example is playing a standard C chord but hammering the open D->E on the 4th string. I haven't found any strumming VSTs that let me do that. 

For example, in AmpleSound I can strum using the strum library in one track, and then duplicate the instrument to another track but only play the hammer-ons. I can get close but it still sounds like 2 instruments. I get around this by not using the strummer but manually drawing out all the individual notes. This gives me great flexibility, and it sounds like one instrument but, MAN, it's so time-consuming!

Has anyone found a good strumming VST that also has individual legato notes built into the strumming engine?

[Byron Dickens]

Forgive the obvious question, but why don't you just play this stuff on guitar? Wouldn't that be a whole lot simpler?

[fret_man]

That sure would be simpler! Wish I could control my neighbor from cutting his grass, or the airplanes overhead, or the dogs. I think you get my problem. I have no quiet tracking space.

[abacab]

Have you tried the strumming engine in the Indiginus guitars by Tracy Collins? https://www.indiginus.com/renegade-acoustic-guitar

He has scripted a brilliant Kontakt UI for guitar. But since I am not a guitar player, I can't really say if it would solve your question, although it might be worth a look.  This is a 9 min walkthrough of his Renegade Acoustic for Kontakt (full). The strumming engine overview begins at 4:55.

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by abacab

[fret_man]

That's the 2nd time Renegade has been suggested to me. It's now on my To-BUY list! Thx.

[daveiv]

IMHO the best strumming VST is... YOU!
(Once you have a good sample library, of course)

?

[mettelus]

I had never thought of this question and wonder from that Renegade video if it would be any different. If strings are left to ring, the spacing can give the hammer on effect with the next chord, but won't isolate that string (strummer downside). Manually doing the hammer on is what comes to mind for me as well. I just updated Guitar Pro 8, and the last Ample Sound update has improved support for that, so will test that out when I get a chance. My gut feel would be to use GP to do the strums, then just import that file into AS (not using the strummer specifically), but this is a good point.

[daveiv]

6 minutes ago, mettelus said:

I had never thought of this question and wonder from that Renegade video if it would be any different. If strings are left to ring, the spacing can give the hammer on effect with the next chord, but won't isolate that string (strummer downside). Manually doing the hammer on is what comes to mind for me as well. I just updated Guitar Pro 8, and the last Ample Sound update has improved support for that, so will test that out when I get a chance. My gut feel would be to use GP to do the strums, then just import that file into AS (not using the strummer specifically), but this is a good point.

Do you insert chords into GP note by note, and then add the strumming articulation symbol? Or GP has a way to voicize chord names?

[mettelus]

58 minutes ago, daveiv said:

Do you insert chords into GP note by note, and then add the strumming articulation symbol? Or GP has a way to voicize chord names?

I tend to use score editors like most use MIDI editors, constructing chords then copy/paste, then accidentals can be placed. I also use TAB view (or the fret board), because that forces the engine to specific strings, this will get the realism effect of that string reacting to whatever is done by the VSTi used. Chord progressions are not typically complex, so once done, bars or even multiple bars can be copied/pasted this way. Depending how complex that gets, some of Ample Sounds switches are then sometimes best to tweak in the DAW itself. Once inside the DAW, copy/paste will work there in the same manner. I honestly have not used Guitar Pro to make an entire score, but it can be far quicker to build things there to transfer elsewhere.

Edited October 9, 2022 by mettelus

[abacab]

How to play guitar parts on keyboard... ?

 

[daveiv]

Fingerstyle and soloing is easier than realistic strumming with guitar VIs.

 

[mettelus]

Similar to my previous post really... I think the hurdle with the OP is stummers are inherently focused on a chord (as a whole), with variations to those notes only. The D->Dsus4 mentioned in the OP is a chord change to the strummer, so if set to ring a D could be played, and then just the G of the Dsus4 (the strummer is forced to switch chords), but whether that would sound like a hammer on would be up to the VSTi. Strummers seem more geared to simplifying backing tracks, so you can fire off the chords of the song key with one finger. If keying an entire guitar chord by hand, it undermines the strummer's basic intent.

Although VSTis have gained incredible realism, the play of a real guitar allows for a lot of precision that is difficult to replicate, e.g., strings fretted, others bent in the same chord. As mentioned above, I think that is far easier on a guitar, so it is worth considering options to achieve this (tracking at odd hours, noise reduction software that allows a capture/removal, etc.). It is also a situation where an electric could be used and then converted to an acoustic once tracked.

It is an eye opener to play with a VSTi then realize, "Ugh, I just spent 15 minutes making realistic chords I could have tracked in 20 seconds :("

[MisterX]

I guess Ample Guitars may have what you're looking for:

[Tutorial] Strum Legato in Ample Guitar

Somewhere in the middle of the clip there's also a topic on using hammer-ons (and pull-offs) switches while strumming.

[MisterX]

4 hours ago, mettelus said:

Similar to my previous post really... I think the hurdle with the OP is stummers are inherently focused on a chord (as a whole), with variations to those notes only. The D->Dsus4 mentioned in the OP is a chord change to the strummer, so if set to ring a D could be played, and then just the G of the Dsus4 (the strummer is forced to switch chords), but whether that would sound like a hammer on would be up to the VSTi. Strummers seem more geared to simplifying backing tracks, so you can fire off the chords of the song key with one finger. If keying an entire guitar chord by hand, it undermines the strummer's basic intent.

Although VSTis have gained incredible realism, the play of a real guitar allows for a lot of precision that is difficult to replicate, e.g., strings fretted, others bent in the same chord. As mentioned above, I think that is far easier on a guitar, so it is worth considering options to achieve this (tracking at odd hours, noise reduction software that allows a capture/removal, etc.). It is also a situation where an electric could be used and then converted to an acoustic once tracked.

It is an eye opener to play with a VSTi then realize, "Ugh, I just spent 15 minutes making realistic chords I could have tracked in 20 seconds :("

Exactly, as for Ample Sound Guitars a chord change (plus a keyswitch) is required  to achieve this effect, but the result sounds quite convincing to me. Although I can't agree that recording a real guitar is always the best option, since you'd need a top instrument, good recording conditions and equipment as well as some basic knowledge to achieve what professional VSTi vendors are capable of. We also need to keep in mind, that there are non-guitar-players among us.

[abacab]

40 minutes ago, MisterX said:

Somewhere in the middle of the clip there's also a topic on using hammer-ons (and pull-offs) switches while strumming.

That demonstration shows he is using a MIDI pattern in the piano roll to trigger the additional articulations during the strums. They are not actually part of the pattern bank in the Ample VSTi.

I assume that piano roll technique might be possible with any strumming engine, as long as those articulations are available via keyswitches.

[abacab]

1 minute ago, MisterX said:

We also need to keep in mind, that there are non-guitar-players among us.

Exactly!

[MisterX]

13 minutes ago, abacab said:

That demonstration shows he is using a MIDI pattern in the piano roll to trigger the additional articulations during the strums. They are not actually part of the pattern bank in the Ample VSTi.

I assume that piano roll technique might be possible with any strumming engine, as long as those articulations are available via keyswitches.

I also doubt it's currently possible inside the program (Riffer maybe?), nonetheless it's good to know, that it works outside and sounds OK.

[mettelus]

30 minutes ago, MisterX said:

Exactly, as for Ample Sound Guitars a chord change (plus a keyswitch) is required  to achieve this effect, but the result sounds quite convincing to me. Although I can't agree that recording a real guitar is always the best option, since you'd need a top instrument, good recording conditions and equipment as well as some basic knowledge to achieve what professional VSTi vendors are capable of. We also need to keep in mind, that there are non-guitar-players among us.

I am with you, the OP had mentioned noise as the hurdle, so was noodling some other options. Basically AS confirmed the key switches, but they are not embedded into the strummer itself (tapped into with a DAW insert). That was what I was thinking initially, and if working in a DAW is certainly doable.

I had forgotten the name of Blue Cat's Re-Guitar, but that has options to manipulate DI tracks. This video is specific to something not mentioned often enough, which is using impulse responses to get a more realistic acoustic sound. From a background noise perspective, capturing electric guitar is simplest, but I had forgotten the name of that plugin. I just downloaded the demo, and noticed the price is $99, but is $299 at some sites?? Anyone know the "regular price"?

Edited October 10, 2022 by mettelus

[Byron Dickens]

2 hours ago, MisterX said:

We also need to keep in mind, that there are non-guitar-players among us.

True, but the OP is one.

In his position, I would be starting a construction project; I can't imagine spending hours and hours futzing around to create a performance with VIs that I could knock out in a few minutes with the real thing.

[abacab]

Just saw this in the Ample Sound guitar strummer guide:

1.7 Strum with Articulations (Original)
By combining articulation keyswitches and chord switch keys, you can play Natural Harmonic, Palm Mute, Slide In & Out, Legato Slide, Hammer-On & Pull-Off and Pop while strumming.