Best video format to use in CW?

[jono grant]

Hi, long time composer using Cakewalk. 

I had a long thread going over the years of why Cakewalk adds a "padded silence" when importing MP4 or QuickTime to the time line.

All works well, but any music you create and export does not sync properly with the original video after export. It adds that padded silence to the beginning of the exported track.

I never resolved this. Noel Borthwick said it was just the way Window audio works. (Although any other DAW I try doesn't do this) 

 

Anyhow, everyone in the industry uses MP4 files, so I need to convert them to use with Cakewalk. I find WMV files clunky and slow to react to transport messages. AVIs are huge.

Does anyone have a video format they can suggest that works BEST with CW?

Thanks!

Jono 

 

*Original thread here: 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by jono grant
Typo

[Lord Tim]

I use h.264 720p/25 (or 30) MP4 and generally have no issues with sync. If you have a fairly beefy machine you should be able to get fine performance from 1080p or higher frame rates, but I'd be inclined to not go past 30fps anyway.

[Andres Medina]

Me too: H264 codec. Works very good, no issues at all. I ask the video guy to export in this format, so I just import it as it comes.

In a few instances - i.e., when I need a pre-roll time in the video, when the music starts at 1st frame, I edit the video in a separate video editor, inserting a blank of 2 sec at the beginning.

[jono grant]

 

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

I use h.264 720p/25 (or 30) MP4 and generally have no issues with sync. If you have a fairly beefy machine you should be able to get fine performance from 1080p or higher frame rates, but I'd be inclined to not go past 30fps anyway.

 

34 minutes ago, Andres Medina said:

Me too: H264 codec. Works very good, no issues at all. I ask the video guy to export in this format, so I just import it as it comes.

In a few instances - i.e., when I need a pre-roll time in the video, when the music starts at 1st frame, I edit the video in a separate video editor, inserting a blank of 2 sec at the beginning.

Thanks guys! I had high hopes and tried this. I converted a video using "handbrake" into H.264. Same issue... when I export the video's audio from cakewalk as a test and bring the video into say Vegas Pro (video) the exported audio is later than the original. See screen shot. I seriously have been asking about this for years and years.

(Original audio from video file on top tracks, same audio exported from Cakewalk on second set of tracks. Out by a good frame or so (random unfortunately)

*PS. While in Cakewalk, nothing is out of sync! Works fine, but on import of any QT, MP4 etc. file CW adds a "padded silence" at the top of the mp4 (and file) which gets added to your wave export. If I do this same test using say Protools or Cubase, the exported audio files are rock solid when opened up in another program. 

I wish someone could figure out a way to offset or make a compensation for this apon export of a file containing these video files.

Arrrrrg! 

Edited September 24, 2022 by jono grant
Typo

[Lord Tim]

I never bothered to match audio exactly to video for an export to video in CbB, honestly. I'd export the audio only and then import that into my NLE for sync to picture later, so any padding was never much of a big deal to trim off if need be. So long as the sync doesn't drift during the program, I'm good with it. (Doing sync to some flavours of h.265, on the other hand... Argh. Good luck with that.)

Should it export with no padding? Yeah, absolutely! But if you're not trying to do everything in CbB with the video export, it's personally not a big deal at all for me.

[jono grant]

9 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

I never bothered to match audio exactly to video for an export to video in CbB, honestly. I'd export the audio only and then import that into my NLE for sync to picture later, so any padding was never much of a big deal to trim off if need be. So long as the sync doesn't drift during the program, I'm good with it. (Doing sync to some flavours of h.265, on the other hand... Argh. Good luck with that.)

Should it export with no padding? Yeah, absolutely! But if you're not trying to do everything in CbB with the video export, it's personally not a big deal at all for me.

Thanks! But as a composer, this really messes up the work flow. Any other DAW I try doesn't add padding so everything is rock solid between programs as it should be. I've been doing work-arounds for a decade. I belie it's something they could fix if they wanted to. At least figure out some sort of delay offset for it or something. I don't want to switch DAWs as I love Cakewalk but this would really be a worthwhile fix! (You have to consider the time it takes to resync hundreds of cues, full scores, commercials etc.) The issue is likely with the codecs used to create the MP4s. Years ago, Quicktime files would not do this. They do now for some reason.

J 

 

[jono grant]

Just tried to use WMV file. Much closer but still not perfect sync.

Something is messed up with Cakewalk/Video/Clock

It should be just a solid as an audio-only session. (in terms of sync)

Is there anyone from CW who could look into this?  

@msmcleod Perhaps???

[jono grant]

So best result here if you're trying to score against picture with Cakewalk: Convert to WMV file. Offset cakewalk by -1 frame for closest sync when delivering to other people/DAWs.   

Convert your MP4 or MOV to a WMV file:

 

[Michael Vogel]

I notice you mention Quicktime. Apple dropped support for Windows many years ago. See article in link. 

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl837?locale=en_AU

I have no sync issues with video in Cakewalk, using Vegas Pro 17 and even a really old version of Premiere from Adobe suite 6.0

Edited September 26, 2022 by Michael Vogel
Added information.

[jono grant]

4 hours ago, Michael Vogel said:

I notice you mention Quicktime. Apple dropped support for Windows many years ago. See article in link. 

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl837?locale=en_AU

I have no sync issues with video in Cakewalk, using Vegas Pro 17 and even a really old version of Premiere from Adobe suite 6.0

Thanks! I'm aware. Unfortunately people on Macs still use QT and send out videos using it. More popular is MP4. We PC audio users are a small minority.

*Also, everyone has the reply (I have no sync issues) either do I, but a Cakewalk file with an mp4 or QT file will export audio late. 

[Michael Vogel]

I’m not sure I agree that PC audio users are a minority. I’f anything I’d say it’s the other way around. Still, that’s not really the point. There are tools you can use to process the video files enabling choice of the video and audio codec used and the container in which they’re delivered. 

I used to use a free program called SUPER that allowed you to manipulate all aspects of video/audio files to get around compatibility or sync issues like you seem to be having.

I’ll look it up and see if it’s still around. 

SUPER be careful. In the past there used to be lots of advertising on the page and it was easy to download another advertised app instead of SUPER. Give it a go, it pulled me out of quite a few tricky spots. You might have to go all the way to the end of the page. I’m using my phone at the moment and as it’s a PC application I’m not seeing all the correct page details. 

I hope it can offer you some help. Cheers,

[Byron Dickens]

Handbrake

https://handbrake.fr/

[jono grant]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:43 PM, Michael Vogel said:

I’m not sure I agree that PC audio users are a minority. I’f anything I’d say it’s the other way around. Still, that’s not really the point. There are tools you can use to process the video files enabling choice of the video and audio codec used and the container in which they’re delivered. 

I used to use a free program called SUPER that allowed you to manipulate all aspects of video/audio files to get around compatibility or sync issues like you seem to be having.

I’ll look it up and see if it’s still around. 

SUPER be careful. In the past there used to be lots of advertising on the page and it was easy to download another advertised app instead of SUPER. Give it a go, it pulled me out of quite a few tricky spots. You might have to go all the way to the end of the page. I’m using my phone at the moment and as it’s a PC application I’m not seeing all the correct page details. 

I hope it can offer you some help. Cheers,

Seriously, it is not the other way around. I wish it were. 

[jono grant]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:50 PM, bdickens said:

Handbrake

https://handbrake.fr/

Yes, I use handbrake to convert video. Great program! Doesn't help with this issue unfortunately as it makes MP4, MKV files which are awesome but Cakewalk is in the stone ages with video files. So, same synch issue even after converting with handbreak.