VIDEO AND AUDIO - PROBLEM ???

[Milton Sica]

I describe an operation that I did that seems to be not being performed correctly.

1) I imported a video with an audio from the Downloads folder into a project, because I wanted to make some corrections to the audio in terms of compressors, etc.
2) I made the corrections, re-exported the video and saved it in a different folder than the folder I imported it from.
3) I deleted the original imported video from the downloadas folder.
4) When opening the project again and running with the video preview it no longer exists. What I see is a black window.

Is it a Cakewalk error or something I missed when saving the project?

[OutrageProductions]

Step #3 is your issue; when you deleted the original video from the DL folder, it will no longer show in the project (however, I suspect that your "corrected" audio track is there).

CbB doesn't actually 'save' imported videos into the current project directory, but just links to them in their original location, so... if it doesn't exist in the original location... it won't show up in the project. I've learned this the hard way because I keep all my Vids on one drive and CbB projects on another. If I do a little "housekeeping" on the video drive, I inevitably get myself into trouble without intention.

Try to import the NEW/Edited video from the alternate save location.

Edit: when I'm done and paid for a score, I save the CW project as a bundle, copy the video to the same directory, and zip it up for archiving. Just FYI.

Edited August 30, 2022 by OutrageProductions

[Milton Sica]

11 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

Step #3 is your issue; when you deleted the original video from the DL folder, it will no longer show in the project (however, I suspect that your "corrected" audio track is there).

CbB doesn't actually 'save' imported videos into the current project directory, but just links to them in their original location, so... if it doesn't exist in the original location... it won't show up in the project. I've learned this the hard way because I keep all my Vids on one drive and CbB projects on another. If I do a little "housekeeping" on the video drive, I inevitably get myself into trouble without intention.

Try to import the NEW/Edited video from the alternate save location.

Edit: when I'm done and paid for a score, I save the CW project as a bundle, copy the video to the same directory, and zip it up for archiving. Just FYI.

@msmcleod

Thank you very much for the clarification that was the conclusion I came to.

With these findings you don't agree that this is a DAW BUG which as far as I've looked in the documentation it's not clarified that this is the behavior of the functionality.

I understand that, like the audios, the video should be preserved inside its own folder inside the project folder, just like the ones registered there.

[Will.]

4 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

With these findings you don't agree that this is a DAW BUG

Nope.

There are literally just a handful of software in world of programs that actually save the video as a copy within the saved file.

Again: a handful software only. 

Not even the film industries most popular high graphics video editors does this - for reasons such as file size issues and all the other complications that comes with it. 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Will.

[Milton Sica]

7 hours ago, Will. said:

Nope.

There are literally just a handful of software in world of programs that actually save the video as a copy within the saved file.

 

 

I didn't mention saving the video inside the project, but in a specific folder that could be called VIDEO, when there is a video imported to the DAW.

It seems to me that this should be completely transparent even for the DAW to preserve the integrity of the project.

It does so with audios, Melodyne files, exported files.

Why not do it also for the video that was imported when projected.

Better than leaving it linked in a "lost" folder or at least asking the user when importing a video if they want to save it to the project folder.

I think it would be a lot smarter and integrity for the project.

 

As in the picture ????

 

 

 

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Milton Sica said:

I didn't mention saving the video inside the project, but in a specific folder that could be called VIDEO, when there is a video imported to the DAW.

It seems to me that this should be completely transparent even for the DAW to preserve the integrity of the project.

It does so with audios, Melodyne files, exported files.

Why not do it also for the video that was imported when projected.

Better than leaving it linked in a "lost" folder or at least asking the user when importing a video if they want to save it to the project folder.

I think it would be a lot smarter and integrity for the project.

 

As in the picture ????

 

 

 

As mentioned before without trying to argue this, theres literally just a handful of software that does this and if you think about it - it really doesnt make sense to make a copy of a video file the is already saved on your computer - otherwise every Film Video Editor would have done this, but they dont. Think of file size. (Im repeating myself.) 

Secondly: Music apps is literally just designed to be as its abbreviation calls them - Digital Audio Workstation. Not D.A.V.W or D.V.A.W (with respect.) 

Lastly: Have you looked at every Audio File Folders in your saved projects? For every tweak you make - it save multiple copies of the same file you've worked on. It will have to do the same for the Video file. Imagine all that copies of your (minimum) 5GB video file size. What do you think will happen if you have a 70GB video file | or | your 90min video file? Making copies would be ridiculous time consuming taking us back to windows 2000/XP saving speeds, plus a waste of unnecessary space on the drive. There's lots of reasons why these Video editors and Daws dont do it. It just doesn't make sense.

Im not trying to rain on your parade here. There's just a lot of factors that comes in to play that prevent this. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Will.

[Milton Sica]

5 hours ago, Will. said:

As mentioned before without trying to argue this, theres literally just a handful of software that does this and if you think about it - it really doesnt make sense to make a copy of a video file the is already saved on your computer - otherwise every Film Video Editor would have done this, but they dont. Think of file size. (Im repeating myself.) 

Secondly: Music apps is literally just designed to be as its abbreviation calls them - Digital Audio Workstation. Not D.A.V.W or D.V.A.W (with respect.) 

Lastly: Have you looked at every Audio File Folders in your saved projects? For every tweak you make - it save multiple copies of the same file you've worked on. It will have to do the same for the Video file. Imagine all that copies of your (minimum) 5GB video file size. What do you think will happen if you have a 70GB video file | or | your 90min video file? Making copies would be ridiculous time consuming taking us back to windows 2000/XP saving speeds, plus a waste of unnecessary space on the drive. There's lots of reasons why these Video editors and Daws dont do it. It just doesn't make sense.

Im not trying to rain on your parade here. There's just a lot of factors that comes in to play that prevent this. 

Thank you very much for your comments that allow me to better clarify my opinion.

1) I don't think Cakewalk should transform from a DAW to a Video Editor DAW.
2) No! It must remain as a DAW.
3) What I'm suggesting and I understand is that its "INTEGRITY" will be much better than the video, when imported to the project it will appear in a folder of the project itself. Just as it is today. Transferring the original to this folder (which I find much more efficient and smart) or copying it to this new folder.

I ratify: I don't think Cakewalk should become a "hybrid" DAW, but that ONLY, you see, ONLY IMPORT or COPY the imported video in its original state into a project folder, not being "loose".

I hope I made myself understood.

[Will.]

Lol! I give up! 

11 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

I hope I made myself understood.

It was clear in the OP. 

11 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

 COPY the imported video in its original state into a project folder, not being "loose".

Keep saying the same thing. 

16 hours ago, Will. said:

Making copies would be ridiculous time consuming taking us back to windows 2000/XP saving speeds, plus a waste of unnecessary space on the drive. There's lots of reasons why these Video editors and Daws dont do it. It just doesn't make sense.

I keep repeating the reason. 

But, because you're a great guy and an active member on the forum (unlike me ?) I will repeat this again. 

Question: 

How long does it normally take your system to load an unmixed 16 channel project without buses or aux tracks in it, because 10 seconds feels already too long for me to wait for just audio tracks to load. If that same project still have its instrument audio tracks as VSTi in it -it takes close to 20 seconds to load (depending on the size of the instruments of course.)

I've timed a 32 channel project load with its instruments and aux tracks that took 1m8s (00:01:08) to load. Way-too-Long. 

The second scenario: A 25 min audio for an episode that crashed the DAW twice in the middle of the export. I had to do a live bounce which took 25 mins. The previous episodes took close to 5mins to export - which in itself is too long. 

So in order for CbB to make a "physical copy" which you're proposing and suggesting it should; including a want for it -- would be to take the DAW back 20 years with this approach in its project load and SAVING speeds. The loading and save speeds are the reasons why daws and film editors do not do this. They rather came up with a brilliant idea to have the program make a "memory copy" of it. Hence why the project loads and saved projects are 20 times faster today with video and audio in them today. 

Having the DAW (and video editors programs) to stream the video from its original saved location and path was a brilliant invention and creation with this idea for project load speeds and to save them . This idea first came into creation with Video Programs that does their own audio in their software - such as Sony Vega Pro. DAW creators then tooks this brilliant idea and implemented it in their brands too. 

So, having the DAW to stream the video from its original path by creating a "memory copy" of the file is a more streamline approach towards workflows and PROJECT SPEEDS.

And if this isnt clear enough for you, then I dont know what would be Milton. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Will.

[Milton Sica]

3 hours ago, Will. said:

Lol! I give up! 

....

Thank you very much for your considerations.
We have different views on the same operation and concept of "project integrity".

Now that I understand that the application when importing video into a project only keeps a reference to its "physical" path in the file repository I chose and that, if it is deleted from there, it also disappears from the project, when it needs to work on the audio of a video and I want the video to still be referenced and visible, I myself will create the VIDEO folder inside the project folder, play the original video there and import from there.

That simple.

 

It is important to mention that, yes, the documentation makes the save note only by reference.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR X3&language=3&help=Playback.41.html

Edited August 31, 2022 by Milton Sica

[Milton Sica]

Another question that occurred regarding importing video.

I have it clear that the project has a reference when importing the video to the folder from which it was imported, always looking for the video in that folder.

Question 1 - Is it possible to change the reference of the video source folder in the project?

Doubt 2 - If I put the same video back in the source folder from where it was deleted, can the program resume the reference?

[Andres Medina]

2 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

Another question that occurred regarding importing video.

I have it clear that the project has a reference when importing the video to the folder from which it was imported, always looking for the video in that folder.

Question 1 - Is it possible to change the reference of the video source folder in the project?

Doubt 2 - If I put the same video back in the source folder from where it was deleted, can the program resume the reference?

As far as I  know:

1.  An easy way to do that is just re-import the video: it will save the link to the new source folder

2. I assume that if you did not re-saved your project (which probably will update the video reference pointing - thus erasing it), the project should reopen the video as it was originally.

I work a lot with audio for video, and found out that if you don't delete the imported audio from a video source, re-linking the video takes literally no time, as it just points the video, not really import it.

[Milton Sica]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:43 PM, Andres Medina said:

 

I work a lot with audio for video, and found out that if you don't delete the imported audio from a video source, re-linking the video takes literally no time, as it just points the video, not really import it.

Excellent. Thanks !

 

[Will.]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:01 AM, Milton Sica said:

Question 1 - Is it possible to change the reference of the video source folder in the project?

What you can try out is go into the preference and under the FILE/Folder location try choosing a dedicated folder from there. 

NOTE: I have never done this with video before, but i have done it for my Exported Audio Tracks and Track Templates. SO PLEASE! EXPERIMENT! with a demo project before you commit to the new folder location.

PLEASE! IF YOU DO NOT TRUST THIS, DONT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT. 

Do these changes at your OWN RISK.

 

[Milton Sica]

3 hours ago, Will. said:

What you can try out is go into the preference and under the FILE/Folder location try choosing a dedicated folder from there. 

NOTE: I have never done this with video before, but i have done it for my Exported Audio Tracks and Track Templates. SO PLEASE! EXPERIMENT! with a demo project before you commit to the new folder location.

PLEASE! IF YOU DO NOT TRUST THIS, DONT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT. 

Do these changes at your OWN RISK.

 

Thanks a lot for the help.
In fact, I thought that, like the configuration of the other folders, the video files would also be in the folder I configured as the Videos folder in Preferences.

But that's not what happens.
What would this folder be for then ????

[Will.]

25 minutes ago, Milton Sica said:

What would this folder be for then ????

Yeah . . . Just tested this, but . . . ??? 

I also cant drag and drop a video??? I had to right click and import. Havent even been away for 6 months and im already forgetting things. Didnt it allow drag and drop before - LOL! Didnt it???

Dont know . . . 

[Andres Medina]

The Video Folder configured in Preferences is just the default folder where CW looks for a video for importing. If you placed your video in other place, of course it will not show inside this folder. Perhaps double check your video locations?

Drag&Drop: yes, it works too: imports the dragged video.

[Milton Sica]

36 minutes ago, Andres Medina said:

The Video Folder configured in Preferences is just the default folder where CW looks for a video for importing. If you placed your video in other place, of course it will not show inside this folder. Perhaps double check your video locations?

Drag&Drop: yes, it works too: imports the dragged video.

Thanks.

I understood.

Serves as the default to fetch but not to keep.

It seems to me that the way each of the folders is "seen or handled" in related DAW operations is not very analogous.

Some serve to search by default, others to search by default and write by default....

Could you tell me in the documentation where is the description of how the folders work?

[Andres Medina]

My understanding is that each folder location works depending on the tasks involved. Regarding video files, as CW does not really import them, then it makes sense that the location is just a starter, I think.

Here is the link to this topic in the documentation:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x201D9

[Milton Sica]

22 hours ago, Andres Medina said:

My understanding is that each folder location works depending on the tasks involved. Regarding video files, as CW does not really import them, then it makes sense that the location is just a starter, I think.

Here is the link to this topic in the documentation:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x201D9

Thank you very much.

After reading the documentation, I further confirm my opinion that, as well as audios and other files are searched in the folder registered in Preferences by default, the videos imported into the project should migrate to their own folder within the Project folder as a way of maintaining their integrity. his. as I suggested above